"We are on the verge of a revolution in medicine: understanding, treating, and ultimately preventing the causes of degenerative aging. But medical revolutions only happen if we all stand up in support of funding and research. We did it for cancer. We're doing it for Alzheimer's. We can do it for aging - and create an era of longer, healthier lives!"

Required Reading
Activism and Advocacy
Calorie Restriction
The Community, Visualized
Cryonics
Healthy Life Extension Explained
Introductory Articles
Longevity Meme Newsletter
Methuselah Foundation
Mprize for Anti-Aging Research
Stem Cells, Regenerative Medicine
SENS, Negligible Senescence
What is Anti-Aging?

High Quality Supplements, Vitamins
High Quality Supplements, Vitamins

On the Causes of Aging
Accumulating AGEs
Aging Immune System
Junk in the Lysosome
Mitochondrial Free Radicals
Other Causes of Aging

Objections Answered
Boredom
Inequality and Economics
Overpopulation
Stagnation
The Tithonus Error
What About Retirement?

Recent Entries

  • Electric Pulse Interview With Aubrey de Grey
  • "Should" is a Dangerous Word
  • Small Steps Towards Engineered, Hyperefficient, Artificial Immune Systems
  • An Interview With Peter Thiel
  • The Latest Rejuvenation Research, April 2008
  • Comments on the Sirtris Acquisition
  • Body Temperature and Longevity
  • A Look at the Longevity Dividend View
  • Thrashing Out Your Regenerative Medicine Thesis Online
  • But Enough About You
  • Aging Doesn't Just Kill People, It Kills Them Horribly
  • A Little More p66Shc Research
  • Solar Elastosis and the Aging Structure of Your Skin
  • An Evening With Aubrey de Grey in Orlando, Florida, May 12th
  • The Concise Argument For Cryonics
  • Glucose Cast as Threat to Longevity
  • Fast Track Articles at Rejuvenation Research
  • Rusty Blood Vessels Leading to Mechanical Failure in the Brain
  • Yet More to Blame on Damaged Mitochondrial DNA
  • The Other Side of Stem Cell Research

    Weblogs of Interest
    Accelerating Future
    Alcor News
    April's CR Diary
    Andart
    Anti-Aging Medicine & Science
    Biosingularity
    CRON Diary
    Cryonics Society
    Depressed Metabolism
    Digital Crusader
    Distributed Republic
    Ethical Technology Blog
    Existence is Wonderful
    Frontier Channel
    Future Current
    FuturePundit
    grailsearch.org
    Longevity Science
    Marginal Revolution
    Metamagician and the Hellfire Club
    Methuselah Foundation Blog
    Mises Economics Blog
    Nanodot
    Ouroboros
    Overcoming Bias
    Pimm - Partial immortalization
    Responsible Nanotechnology
    ScienceBlogs
    Sentient Developments
    Singularity Institute Blog
    The Loom
    The Speculist
    Tangled Bank
    Transumanar

      
    Search

    Archives (Monthly)

    May 2008
    April 2008
    March 2008
    February 2008
    January 2008
    December 2007
    November 2007
    October 2007
    September 2007
    August 2007
    July 2007
    June 2007
    May 2007
    April 2007
    March 2007
    February 2007
    January 2007
    December 2006
    November 2006
    October 2006
    September 2006
    August 2006
    July 2006
    June 2006
    May 2006
    April 2006
    March 2006
    February 2006
    January 2006
    December 2005
    November 2005
    October 2005
    September 2005
    August 2005
    July 2005
    June 2005
    May 2005
    April 2005
    March 2005
    February 2005
    January 2005
    December 2004
    November 2004
    October 2004
    September 2004
    August 2004
    July 2004
    June 2004
    May 2004
    April 2004
    March 2004
    February 2004
    January 2004

    Creative Commons License
    Attribution, noncommercial, no derivative works. Play nice.

  • « What Do Failing Stem Cells Contribute to Degenerative Aging? | Main | Why We Need to Change the Approach to Aging »

    Tuesday, May 16, 2006

    On Longevity, Stagnation and Freedom

    As I'm sure long-time readers are aware, there are all too many people in the world who would force you and I to suffer greatly and die from old age for no better reason than they want to and they can - concentration of power is the enabler of great horrors.

    Politicians and government employees - with or without the tacit approval of the governed - have done far worse than force old age upon people in the past; the power to cause death and misery is only restrained by the threat of the same. Those with power insulate themselves from the consequences of actions that would bring just retribution upon others, however. There is no good cause for believing that an ugly future of mandated and enforced limits on life span could not occur -complacancy for our freedoms and tolerance of the abuse of power are the first steps down that sorry path.

    A blog entry by Nydra at Betterhumans prompted this line of thought. It's a response to the stagnation objection to healthy life extension, a particularly poorly formed objection amongst many poorly formed objections - but this one touches on (or rather tramples over) the topic of freedom more than most.

    The entire fulcrum of this comment seems to be the notion that individuals must necessarily be sacrificed so that some central tenet of nature may be upheld for the "greater good". I question the notion that a maximally "good" and ethical society must condemn people to death, despite the possibility of developing healthy life-extending technologies. Though some people certainly garner meaning and motivation from awareness of their own mortality, this is not true of all people. I do not see why the "death is meaningful" folks should get to decide the lifespans of those who disagree. As far as I am concerned, people who want to die are welcome to do so, but those who would rather stay around longer should have that option.

    Freedom, in other words, in the form of self-ownership; the freedom to do as you see fit with your own body. But the trampling in the stagnation argument occurs earlier in the quote above, in the assumptions underlying a "greater good." Who gets to decide, and how do they get to force that decision upon others? Words like "we," "society" and the like - indeed, any assumptions of unity or of speaking for groups - are tricky pieces of camouflage for people who are employing force to have things their way, usually at your expense.

    Further discussion on this matter would be greatly appreciated, since the "stagnation" argument against radical life extension seems to be nearly as frequently encountered these days as the "overpopulation" argument.

    Agreed. More discussion is the way to show these arguments to the world as the nonsense they are. People change, and long-lived people will likely change more. If people refrain from change, that is their choice, and I would like to live in the sort of society where choice without harm is respected. What sort of person calls for institutionalized murder when faced with a free choice that does not impact him or his possessions?

    Technorati tags: ,

    Posted by Reason at May 16, 2006 9:27 PM | TrackBack (0)

    Posted by: Nydra at May 16, 2006 11:05 PM

    The term "greater good" is particularly troublesome when applied to anti-life-extension arguments. I don't think it is possible to define a "greater good" that also includes a clause that individuals are disposable.

    Many people seem to forget that what they know as "society" is comprised OF individuals -- autonomous beings with varying notions of what their own Best Possible Life is. Of course, cooperation can enhance the lives of individuals and our neighbors, but cooperation is not synonymous with some sort of forced paternalistic rule.

    There are few notions I can thing of that are more dangerous than a governing body with the power and "popular blessing" to restrict the lifespans of individuals based on poorly-thought-out ideology. I'd like to know how the anti-life-extensionists plan to implement the restrictions of healthy life extension technology or the systematic execution of citizens that have, in someone's arbitrary estimation, "worn out their welcome".

    [Posted by: Nydra at May 16, 2006 11:05 PM]

    Posted by: Yo-yo at May 16, 2006 11:55 PM

    Mandated lifespans will never happen. To implement them as policy you would need to convince elected representatives to pass a law that effectively set an upper limit on their own life and the lives of the people who vote for them. In a era of radical life extension, this could not be accomplished. It would be easy to do now, since life extension is not a reality yet - however, when it comes to the crunch of killing people against their will, it just won't happen.

    [Posted by: Yo-yo at May 16, 2006 11:55 PM]

    Posted by: aa2 at May 17, 2006 1:31 AM

    Stagnation is an ironic argument for people who are trying to stop progress to use. -that is the counter argument against them.

    On overpopulation I just say bs..stop sending food aid to Africa and funding catholic priests and muslim clerics who tell Africans not to use condoms before you talk to us. The developed world could have 10 times the population it has now and we would manage.

    [Posted by: aa2 at May 17, 2006 1:31 AM]

    Posted by: Joe at May 17, 2006 8:58 AM

    The overpopulation argument is just silly. A human uses about 100w of energy to live. A 1m sq. gets something around 1000w of energy. So 10 people can theoretically live on ever 1m sq. Even with great inefficacies the earth can support 1 person per meter.

    [Posted by: Joe at May 17, 2006 8:58 AM]

    Posted by: Trisha at May 22, 2006 4:47 PM

    I remember reading this post a while back when it first showed up in my feed reader. And I thought of it again today when reading a post in another blog.

    I could never understand why some people think that dying is such a great wonderful thing. Or why these same people seem to be offended at the thought of people not dying.

    Which brings me to the point of posting here today. Katie at h ttp://spaces.msn. com/lilk8tob/ (I get an error when I leave the url intact) posted on her blog today (5/22/2006) about a man who found out he only had 6 months to live and how he was trying to figure out how to tell his wife and kids.

    Now, tell me, would these 'pro-death' people be able to look this guy in his eyes and tell him that his dying was for the greater good? Or any kind of good for that matter.

    [Posted by: Trisha at May 22, 2006 4:47 PM]

    Post a comment; thoughtful, considered opinions are valued. Please note that comments incorporating ad hominem attacks, advertising and other forms of inappropriate behavior are likely to be deleted.










    Remember personal info?