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  • Thursday, April 12, 2007

    More On TA Sciences, TA-65

    Following up on a post from earlier this week, I thought I'd direct your attention to a discussion on the anti-aging hype of TA Sciences, TA-65 and Astragalus over at sci.life-extension. Many hands make light work, and the folk there have laid out a lot more of the background via additional resources.

    Those are some interesting studies, but the most I can glean from them is that astragalus appears to have some antioxidant and immunomodulatory effects in vitro and possibly in vivo, according to a few articles published in some obscure Chinese med journals.

    This of course is a far cry from being a "telomerase-inhibiting anti-aging supplement that improves skin quality and enhances male sexual function".

    ...

    http://www.tasciences.com/ta/blum.html

    Did you see those p-values?? Almost *none* of them is statistically significant (i.e. p is less than or equal to 0.05)

    There are some interesting trends, but this certainly doesn't cut it as far as scientific evidence.

    ...

    That plus what exactly was measured is not exactly well specified. There is a slightly more detailed version linked at the bottom but still...

    My conclusion still stands, I think:

    It reminds of the pitch for Protandim; a little piece of interesting scientific research stretched out thin as possible to cover a cartload of marketing for herbal compounds. ... So here we have the same old marketing nonsense, dressed up in flashy scientific clothing to give it the veneer of legitimacy. Same old attempts to adopt the form of science without the substance of science, the same old corrosive misinformation and look and feel games.

    I can't see much good coming of this for Geron; this sort of partnership doesn't reflect well on a research company.

    Technorati tags:

    Posted by Reason

     
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    Posted by: Chrisclub at April 17, 2007 11:21 AM

    Are we at $72 yet? Go Geron!

    [Posted by: Chrisclub at April 17, 2007 11:21 AM]

    Posted by: bbolt at April 26, 2007 10:04 AM

    Also note their protocol comes with a price tag of 20K for a years treatment.

    [Posted by: bbolt at April 26, 2007 10:04 AM]

    Posted by: Emerged at July 8, 2007 9:03 PM

    Actually from the research I've done it's NOT a scam at all so much as typical corporate games. The research is VERY sound, at least on the Geron (and other researchers) side.

    TA-65 IS a Telomerase "activator". What they are trying to obscure is the fact that it's an isolated synthetic version of the naturally occuring compound (found in extracts of Astragalus membranaceus root) they've been studying and using very successfully and effectivly.

    The compound is not only naturally occuring but has been extracted and used by traditional medicines all over the world for thousands of years i.e. not patentable. So they isolated the active componant and then synthsized it for patentability and manufacturing purposes.

    Extract of Astragalus membranaceus root was studied VERY extensivly by Geron. They did indeed find that it had EXTREME telomerase activation properties both through topical and in vivo applications. You seriously have to read the findings replete with things like. "25pg/ml of extract produced a telomerase activity at 170% of control"! and regarding cancerous cells "...extract was shown not to increase telomerase activity in KB carcinoma cells, where such activity is already expected to be high... telomerase activity was in fact lower in... treated cells... than in the untreated cells"! It's left me agog! :eek:

    Check it out at the European Patent Office site and look up Geron's patent number: WO2004US20363 20040625 entitled FORMULATIONS CONTAINING ASTRAGALUS EXTRACTS AND USES THEREOF and read the description section it's a real mind blower!

    What seems to have happened is that Geron has stepped to the serious anti-cancer and medical treatment side of their findings (to patent, make money, and keep their reputation) while they've licensed "TA Sciences" the synthetic copy "TA-65" molecule that Geron synthesized of the active compound from the Astragalus membranaceus root extract.

    My guess is that they did so as a way to avoid any liability issues (if TA goes down or gets bitten then Geron just goes about business as usual), or possibly because the TA-65 "activator" molecule is in reality merely a synthetic duplicate of the natural version which can't be patented (therefore no control, therefore no profit) due to it's natural occurance, and historic and continued use all over the world.

    Synthesized chems are patentable, naturally extracted ones are generally not. The business "process" of synthesis is also patentable (but only in the U.S.). But not if the compund and the process for extraction are tradionally used by millions all over the world for thousands of years! Oopsie!

    What's even more funny is that TA lists several other manufacturer's suppliments as having been "evaluated" by Dalton Pharm services for TA-65 levels! It's funny because the evaluated suppliments are MASSIVLY lower dosages than what's traditionally used in traditional Chinese medicine (not to mention they were probably sitting on store shelves for years loosing whatever medicinal properties they ever had to begin with)!

    I wish Geron would have at least picked a more savy, sophisticated, and less blatantly greedy storefront than TA-Sciences seems to be. But then again I'm betting Geron knows exactly what's going to happen. Everyone will figure out the little scam and instead of paying $22,000 will just go find an equivalant herbal extract suppliment to take for $5. Heck you could even just follow the explicit directions for extraction listed in their euro patent (exactly the same as the traditional Chinese medicinal extraction methods) and make it yourself just like millions of people in Asia do every day! LOL! :p

    [Posted by: Emerged at July 8, 2007 9:03 PM]

    Posted by: M. Stone at July 9, 2007 11:20 AM

    Could "Emerged" who posted a very interesting comment about Geron on 8 July 2007 please contact me at I'm trying to check out the European Patent Office site and can't find Geron's patent for TA-65. I may need more information or I may not be doing it correctly. Could you link me up?

    Also note that Geron has a telomerase-stimulating molecule, TAT0002 in clinical testing for T-cell immortalization in AIDS patients. This does not appear to be the same as TA-65, although another molecule they isolated, TAT0001 very well may be what TA Sciences is calling TA-65. I doubt this though.

    Thank you in advance for your time.

    Marcy

    [Posted by: M. Stone at July 9, 2007 11:20 AM]

    Posted by: joe soja at September 25, 2007 10:35 PM

    i want some

    [Posted by: joe soja at September 25, 2007 10:35 PM]

    Posted by: Doc Holladay at November 29, 2007 8:47 AM

    I have been following telomere research for 3 years now, and was initally quite excited to see TA-65 announced. I believe firmly in the potential for age reversal and indeterminate life spans, but I'm a bit skeptical of the whole TA Sciences approach. I feel that when it's the real deal, the FDA will get involved, and the ethics nazis will throw a fit... not to mention the political uproar and social changes of unprecidented magnitude. It just seems a bit too quick and easy to me. I understand the whole naturally occuring extract vs. pharmacutically regulated arguements, but this smacks of something fishy. Read Michael Fossel's book Reverseing Human Aging for some good science on this topic. That's not to say that a telomerease activator hasn't been located... it may well be from the Astragalus root, but I want to see some before and after pictures of these test subjects before I'll believe this is the one we're waiting on.

    Doc Holladay

    [Posted by: Doc Holladay at November 29, 2007 8:47 AM]

    Posted by: d at July 10, 2008 8:02 PM

    Why not just do it yourself? TA Science addresses this question head on! The Astragalus membranaceus root only has a tiny portion of TA-65. Thus it takes tons of the root to extract a usable dosage of TA-65. If you are a hobbiest chemist and have proficiency in isolating compounds in roots to the extent of one part per million, can afford to shit in tons of the root, you may be able to make a bottle yourself. Well, that is what I gathered from the TA Sciences website.

    [Posted by: d at July 10, 2008 8:02 PM]

    Posted by: Ron U. at July 17, 2008 10:38 AM

    I see a number of websites selling Astragalus extract in 500 mg capsules. How many would I need to take per day to duplicate the research study?

    [Posted by: Ron U. at July 17, 2008 10:38 AM]

    Posted by: Kayshadog at August 23, 2008 6:43 AM

    Here's that Geron Patent;

    http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US2007122501&F=0

    [Posted by: Kayshadog at August 23, 2008 6:43 AM]

    Posted by: dd at October 8, 2008 1:04 PM

    Is TA Sciences still in business?

    [Posted by: dd at October 8, 2008 1:04 PM]

    Posted by: MarkB at December 6, 2008 9:09 AM

    I have worked for a local doctor in palm Beach who states he is the only authorized physician to distribute TA-65 in North America. He recently completed a conference where he charged $25,000 for one years worth of meds and testing (including baseline and folowup testings). He has taken the meds himself and claims he immediately felt rejuvenated as he has stated in his website. From what I witnessed, it seems logical but I agree on the scientific methodology in the testing of the solution. Make it yourself and save some money but without testing you may never know if it works for you or it is a waste of time and money.

    [Posted by: MarkB at December 6, 2008 9:09 AM]

    Posted by: lilia at May 29, 2009 10:54 AM

    I,m taking TA-65 during one mounth.Did,t notice any
    rejiuvenation.Opposit start feeling weak,dreaming
    horror.I don,t know what 2 do?Continuie or not?

    [Posted by: lilia at May 29, 2009 10:54 AM]

    Posted by: mudmandon at August 30, 2009 7:13 AM

    To Lilia: The TA-65 is probably not what you need. I would suggest you stop taking it and let me have your unused TA-65. If the results are the same in myself then we know the problem is probably in the supplement.

    [Posted by: mudmandon at August 30, 2009 7:13 AM]

    Posted by: Anthony Loera at October 26, 2009 7:10 PM

    Didn't UCLA test Geron's best Telomerase Activator called Cycloastragenol?

    Why settle for ta-65, when you can get the best one tested by an independent and very well known University?

    [Posted by: Anthony Loera at October 26, 2009 7:10 PM]

    Posted by: rene at December 28, 2009 9:00 AM

    where can i get ta-65 supplements

    [Posted by: rene at December 28, 2009 9:00 AM]

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