More On TA Sciences, TA-65

Following up on a post from earlier this week, I thought I'd direct your attention to a discussion on the anti-aging hype of TA Sciences, TA-65 and Astragalus over at sci.life-extension. Many hands make light work, and the folk there have laid out a lot more of the background via additional resources.

Those are some interesting studies, but the most I can glean from them is that astragalus appears to have some antioxidant and immunomodulatory effects in vitro and possibly in vivo, according to a few articles published in some obscure Chinese med journals.

This of course is a far cry from being a "telomerase-inhibiting anti-aging supplement that improves skin quality and enhances male sexual function".

...

http://www.tasciences.com/ta/blum.html

Did you see those p-values?? Almost *none* of them is statistically significant (i.e. p is less than or equal to 0.05)

There are some interesting trends, but this certainly doesn't cut it as far as scientific evidence.

...

That plus what exactly was measured is not exactly well specified. There is a slightly more detailed version linked at the bottom but still...

My conclusion still stands, I think:

It reminds of the pitch for Protandim; a little piece of interesting scientific research stretched out thin as possible to cover a cartload of marketing for herbal compounds. ... So here we have the same old marketing nonsense, dressed up in flashy scientific clothing to give it the veneer of legitimacy. Same old attempts to adopt the form of science without the substance of science, the same old corrosive misinformation and look and feel games.

I can't see much good coming of this for Geron; this sort of partnership doesn't reflect well on a research company.

Technorati tags:

Comments

Are we at $72 yet? Go Geron!

Posted by: Chrisclub at April 17th, 2007 11:21 AM

Also note their protocol comes with a price tag of 20K for a years treatment.

Posted by: bbolt at April 26th, 2007 10:04 AM

Actually from the research I've done it's NOT a scam at all so much as typical corporate games. The research is VERY sound, at least on the Geron (and other researchers) side.

TA-65 IS a Telomerase "activator". What they are trying to obscure is the fact that it's an isolated synthetic version of the naturally occuring compound (found in extracts of Astragalus membranaceus root) they've been studying and using very successfully and effectivly.

The compound is not only naturally occuring but has been extracted and used by traditional medicines all over the world for thousands of years i.e. not patentable. So they isolated the active componant and then synthsized it for patentability and manufacturing purposes.

Extract of Astragalus membranaceus root was studied VERY extensivly by Geron. They did indeed find that it had EXTREME telomerase activation properties both through topical and in vivo applications. You seriously have to read the findings replete with things like. "25pg/ml of extract produced a telomerase activity at 170% of control"! and regarding cancerous cells "...extract was shown not to increase telomerase activity in KB carcinoma cells, where such activity is already expected to be high... telomerase activity was in fact lower in... treated cells... than in the untreated cells"! It's left me agog! :eek:

Check it out at the European Patent Office site and look up Geron's patent number: WO2004US20363 20040625 entitled FORMULATIONS CONTAINING ASTRAGALUS EXTRACTS AND USES THEREOF and read the description section it's a real mind blower!

What seems to have happened is that Geron has stepped to the serious anti-cancer and medical treatment side of their findings (to patent, make money, and keep their reputation) while they've licensed "TA Sciences" the synthetic copy "TA-65" molecule that Geron synthesized of the active compound from the Astragalus membranaceus root extract.

My guess is that they did so as a way to avoid any liability issues (if TA goes down or gets bitten then Geron just goes about business as usual), or possibly because the TA-65 "activator" molecule is in reality merely a synthetic duplicate of the natural version which can't be patented (therefore no control, therefore no profit) due to it's natural occurance, and historic and continued use all over the world.

Synthesized chems are patentable, naturally extracted ones are generally not. The business "process" of synthesis is also patentable (but only in the U.S.). But not if the compund and the process for extraction are tradionally used by millions all over the world for thousands of years! Oopsie!

What's even more funny is that TA lists several other manufacturer's suppliments as having been "evaluated" by Dalton Pharm services for TA-65 levels! It's funny because the evaluated suppliments are MASSIVLY lower dosages than what's traditionally used in traditional Chinese medicine (not to mention they were probably sitting on store shelves for years loosing whatever medicinal properties they ever had to begin with)!

I wish Geron would have at least picked a more savy, sophisticated, and less blatantly greedy storefront than TA-Sciences seems to be. But then again I'm betting Geron knows exactly what's going to happen. Everyone will figure out the little scam and instead of paying $22,000 will just go find an equivalant herbal extract suppliment to take for $5. Heck you could even just follow the explicit directions for extraction listed in their euro patent (exactly the same as the traditional Chinese medicinal extraction methods) and make it yourself just like millions of people in Asia do every day! LOL! :p

Posted by: Emerged at July 8th, 2007 9:03 PM

Could "Emerged" who posted a very interesting comment about Geron on 8 July 2007 please contact me at I'm trying to check out the European Patent Office site and can't find Geron's patent for TA-65. I may need more information or I may not be doing it correctly. Could you link me up?

Also note that Geron has a telomerase-stimulating molecule, TAT0002 in clinical testing for T-cell immortalization in AIDS patients. This does not appear to be the same as TA-65, although another molecule they isolated, TAT0001 very well may be what TA Sciences is calling TA-65. I doubt this though.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Marcy

Posted by: M. Stone at July 9th, 2007 11:20 AM

i want some

Posted by: joe soja at September 25th, 2007 10:35 PM

I have been following telomere research for 3 years now, and was initally quite excited to see TA-65 announced. I believe firmly in the potential for age reversal and indeterminate life spans, but I'm a bit skeptical of the whole TA Sciences approach. I feel that when it's the real deal, the FDA will get involved, and the ethics nazis will throw a fit... not to mention the political uproar and social changes of unprecidented magnitude. It just seems a bit too quick and easy to me. I understand the whole naturally occuring extract vs. pharmacutically regulated arguements, but this smacks of something fishy. Read Michael Fossel's book Reverseing Human Aging for some good science on this topic. That's not to say that a telomerease activator hasn't been located... it may well be from the Astragalus root, but I want to see some before and after pictures of these test subjects before I'll believe this is the one we're waiting on.

Doc Holladay

Posted by: Doc Holladay at November 29th, 2007 8:47 AM

Why not just do it yourself? TA Science addresses this question head on! The Astragalus membranaceus root only has a tiny portion of TA-65. Thus it takes tons of the root to extract a usable dosage of TA-65. If you are a hobbiest chemist and have proficiency in isolating compounds in roots to the extent of one part per million, can afford to shit in tons of the root, you may be able to make a bottle yourself. Well, that is what I gathered from the TA Sciences website.

Posted by: d at July 10th, 2008 8:02 PM

I see a number of websites selling Astragalus extract in 500 mg capsules. How many would I need to take per day to duplicate the research study?

Posted by: Ron U. at July 17th, 2008 10:38 AM

Is TA Sciences still in business?

Posted by: dd at October 8th, 2008 1:04 PM

I have worked for a local doctor in palm Beach who states he is the only authorized physician to distribute TA-65 in North America. He recently completed a conference where he charged $25,000 for one years worth of meds and testing (including baseline and folowup testings). He has taken the meds himself and claims he immediately felt rejuvenated as he has stated in his website. From what I witnessed, it seems logical but I agree on the scientific methodology in the testing of the solution. Make it yourself and save some money but without testing you may never know if it works for you or it is a waste of time and money.

Posted by: MarkB at December 6th, 2008 9:09 AM

I,m taking TA-65 during one mounth.Did,t notice any
rejiuvenation.Opposit start feeling weak,dreaming
horror.I don,t know what 2 do?Continuie or not?

Posted by: lilia at May 29th, 2009 10:54 AM

To Lilia: The TA-65 is probably not what you need. I would suggest you stop taking it and let me have your unused TA-65. If the results are the same in myself then we know the problem is probably in the supplement.

Posted by: mudmandon at August 30th, 2009 7:13 AM

Didn't UCLA test Geron's best Telomerase Activator called Cycloastragenol?

Why settle for ta-65, when you can get the best one tested by an independent and very well known University?

Posted by: Anthony Loera at October 26th, 2009 7:10 PM

where can i get ta-65 supplements

Posted by: rene at December 28th, 2009 9:00 AM

I would think that trying to extract or obtain TA-65 from a standard Astragalus extract would be fool-hardy, otherwise they never would have stated it as such.

I would guess to extract TA-65 at a level to be effective would require "tons" of root, then the cost of extraction. So the cost of the TA-65 is now $4K for 6 months and likely to come down.

Looking at other supplements in the same category (high tech plant/glandular extractions) the cost is fairly competitive.

But really if it works, people will buy, cost will have to come down.

There are other cheaper products that claim the samething (to increase telomerase activity), so let the games begin!

Posted by: tslate at March 28th, 2010 2:35 PM

I would like to know if anyone has taken Cycloastragenol and has reversed perimenopause or menopause. Will this bring our fertility back? You can also buy cycloastragenol from other companies - just look on the internet. It's quite cheap too. Just do a pulse with cycloastragenol and resveratrol and dont take both at the same time. The resveratrol will cancel out the telomerase.

Posted by: Elizabeth at May 13th, 2010 10:00 PM

The telomerase sits on the hTert gene which is also where Herpes Simplex 1 sits. I have a breakout now and my brother gets one when he switches between Cycloastragenol and Resveratrol SO maybe it is working. I have been on it 6 months with what I see NO improvement in my eyesight. Soon we will all be able to get this for about 24 dollars a month if you pulse it- so you would be on it only 50% of the time and the other 50% Resveratrol. Google cycloastragenol and see.

Posted by: ann3288 at September 14th, 2010 9:43 AM

what about pharmacogenomics of TA-65.WILL DEFECIENCY OF ANY ENZYMES SHOWS VARIATION IN RESULTS PRODUCED BY TA-65

Posted by: amrutha at October 21st, 2010 6:35 AM

where do i buy it? elaine

Posted by: elaine at November 9th, 2010 6:17 PM

I'm 83 yrs. old, have heart disease, pulmonary problems, osteoporosis, cataracts, hypothyroid. Hoping for that miracle, but after reading here, wonder if I jumped the gun a bit when I ordered something way beyond my means. Having said that, if it works, it will be beyond wonderful!

Posted by: Milena at November 27th, 2010 7:55 PM

I have been taking TA 65 for one week.
$200 a month is cheap if it works.
I am 50 years old. First thing I noticed is
I am sleeping better.
I am curious to know if anyone has seen
a reversal of menopause from this.
I will check my FSH and estrogen after
a few more weeks and
report back.

Posted by: Debby at November 29th, 2010 8:28 AM

Debby
Where do you buy a months supply of TA-65 for $200?
Thanks Terry

Posted by: terry at January 18th, 2011 4:46 AM

Has anyone had a problem with insomnia after taking TA-65 or tingling extremities?

Posted by: dawn at October 20th, 2011 7:25 PM

First off, ALL OF YOU ARE CRACKPOTS, because NOT *ONE* of you ever mentions WHERE you are getting the TA-65! If you really ARE taking it, then you would say, "I get mine at Dr. so-and-so in Gaisville, Fla. (or wherever)."

This means one of 3 things:
1) You are LYING through your teeth, not taking it at all
2) You are getting supplies 'illegally'
3) You just want attention.

As for Debby, I think she meant TWO *THOUSAND* PER MONTH, since that appears to be the going rate.

Clearly, someone like MarkB is spouting LIES if he fails to tell WHO his [supposed] doctor is - nor does he even mention WHAT website he is discussing!

Part of MarkB's comment: "I have worked for a local doctor in palm Beach who states he is the only authorized physician to distribute TA-65 in North America. He recently completed a conference where he charged $25,000 for one years worth of meds and testing (including baseline and folowup testings). He has taken the meds himself and claims he immediately felt rejuvenated as he has stated in his website. From what I witnessed, it seems logical"

WHAT doctor? And WHAT website? Clearly, you must be lying, because you spout this trash and yet fail to give ANY details! Clearly, if this doctor and website exist, then it ALREADY IS PUBLIC INFO, so it would do NO HARM for you to give details - clearly, you are "seeking attention."

Nice try, but none of us are buying the "hoax info" - especially when NOBODY seems to be able to tell people WHERE they can buy TA-65 or at the very least, get onto part of the clinical trials.

If you HAVE information, POST IT, otherwise, shut up and stop spouting "cloak-and-dagger" info such as "I worked for this [clandestine] palm beach doctor, who is super-secret, and yet he has a website, and yet, i can't mention his name or his web site.

Additionally, keep in mind that the 'government' obviously will not WANT people to 'live longer' because, at a population of 7 BILLION, the earth will run out of resources, and we will see an era much like in the book/movie "Soylent Green" or "Logan's Run," where extreme population-control measures are put into place.

Can you even IMAGINE 30 BILLION people on earth, living to be 250 years old each?! At some point, it will mean that, like in "Soylent Green," there will be virtually NO food, and so many people that there is no room to WALK! Personally, if I can be healthy at 250 years old, and maybe at an "age equivalence" of about 60, then sure, I wouldn't mind living as long as technologically possible!

But, clearly, the earth itself would NOT support an ever-growing "population of immortals" (not truly immortal, to be certain, but certainly likely to be twice the current 80+ year life-span).

And again, don't spout JUNK, if you are just posting "FAKE INFO;" give details! You would have to post the website like www-drsomething-com - because it looks like this site "deletes" web-site links, which sort of defeats the purpose of 'open communication,' don't you think?

Posted by: Jo at November 27th, 2011 8:49 AM

Correction - this site does not appear to block or exclude 'web site addresses' from being posted,

it only excludes EMAIL addresses from being posted, which is A-OK in my book! At least that gives a bit of privacy.

Posted by: Jo at November 27th, 2011 8:55 AM

First, there is no evidence whatsoever that increasing telemerase will increase life span, or even extend the life of individual cells. Cell vitality is far more complex than simply modifying a single molecule. The reason Geron did not pursue this compound is that there is definitely a known association between increasing telemerase and cancer. Anyone who considers this product should be extremely cautious and do their research. Either it is a total scam, in which event you lose a lot of money, or it works and you risk greatly increasing your chances of cancer.

Posted by: Sharon Philips at January 28th, 2012 2:18 AM

Does taking TA-65 eliminate the need to take other supplements?

Posted by: Penelope at March 11th, 2012 6:56 PM

My thoughts are, if there has been testing since 2007, wouldn't the test subjects still be taking this? I agree to the before and after pics. I found TA-65 at Amazon for $220. My doctor has been looking into this for 1 year. I told him I would be willing to do all the testing and take the product, but before I subject myself and my money a lot more research needs to be done.
And Dawn, relax. All that stress and anguish promotes cortisol.
Cheers

Posted by: Lance at April 5th, 2012 11:22 AM

I hav e been taking TA-65 for 6 months and I have felt profound effects, more muscular strength, mental clairity, better sleep, and emotional balance- no improvement of eyesight.

I want to add this:

Louis says:
11. November 2011 at 22:37

I’d like to add that Bill Andrews has addressed this question in a publicly available June 2011 interview.

You can find the transcript and audio of that interview here:
http://100isnew50.com/?sta1
(You must enter a name and email to view it.)

I will quote directly from the transcript:

Q: “Hi Bill, are there any supplements that you recommend not taking because you’ve discovered that they actually reduce telomerase expression in your lab screens?”

A: “There are none that I know of that aren’t safe. Of course you don’t want to take gasoline or something like that. There’s been a few publications suggesting that there are supplements that can interfere with telomerase activity. We have checked every one of them in our labs here, and we have not been able to find that any of them have any significant effect on telomerase activity.”

In my opinion, it’s very foolish to avoid taking these compounds if you’re also taking a telomerase activator. They have very strong anti-cancer properties. The question of whether or not telomerase activation increases/decreases the risk for cancer is still very much being debated. I’ve seen some crazy ideas advocated: for example, that foods rich in dietary polyphenols should be restricted because they inhibit telomerase. This is nonsense.

The fact that compounds like curcumin, resveratrol, EGCG, etc. inhibit telomerase in cancer cell lines simply reinforces the fact that they have strong antineoplastic activity, and likely prevent cancer through telomerase mechanisms and well as many other mechanisms. It has very little bearing on whether these same compounds have any effect whatsoever on the repressor protein in healthy somatic cells. In fact, I strongly suspect that several botanicals that inhibit telomerase in cancer cells do in fact bind to the repressor protein and activate the protein component of hTERT in somatic cells — thus simultaneosly inhibiting telomerase in cancer cells and activating it in somatic cells.

http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2009/06/11/do-resveratrol-curcumin-and-egcg-from-green-tea-really-inhibit-the-expression-of-telomerase/

Posted by: Paul K at April 8th, 2014 1:44 AM

Post a comment; thoughtful, considered opinions are valued. Comments incorporating ad hominem attacks, advertising, and other forms of inappropriate behavior are likely to be deleted.

Note that there is a comment feed for those who like to keep up with conversations.