Brief Note on Protandim Bait and Switch

Lifeline Neutraceuticals will be launching their Protandim brand pills fairly soon. This seems to be an appropriate time to remind those interested in supplements that these pills are not the same as the protandim (or CMX-1152) compound tested by Ceremedix and widely discussed in the healthy life extension community.

CereMedix's peptide technology for decreasing age-related deterioration, resulting from accelerating and cumulative oxidative damage has the potential to be of major benefit in this regard. One potential candidate for the healthy life expectancy has already been identified, CMX-1152. This is an orally available, naturally occurring peptide, which has demonstrated improved longevity in mice.

As I noted previously, the Lifeline product doesn't appear to be at all related to CMX-1152.

UPDATE (June 03 2005): In light of all the recent interest, visitors might find it helpful to read my latest post on the topic of Lifeline and Protandim.

Comments

So it seems the elusive proprietary mix is made of, if I make out correctly from the very fuzzy image of their label on their site:

Bacopa extract, Ashwagandha extract, Green Tea extract, Turmeric extract. I can?t make out the first ingredient though ? milk thistle?

Anyway if you compare the opening of their site to Juvenon, which was far more transparent about ingredients and had better research info, then so far Protandim is underwhelming. Which isn?t to say their mix doesn?t hold promise. Rather the way they have gone about business so far isn?t very inspiring. This kind of product attracts, in part, an educated audience and their site is obtuse, overly simplistic and evasive on key details related to efficacy. They don?t have to use jargon on their front page, but really, what they have up so far is an embarrassment. We?ll see if they improve it in the next few weeks.

I?d love to see a head to head with GliSODin vs Protandim in various antioxidant metrics, but more importantly the Methuselah prize.

thanks for a great website, keep up the good work

Posted by: David at March 7th, 2005 12:16 AM

I was skeptical about this "Protandim" product from the day Lifeline announced the "changes" to its formula. I won't be the least bit surprised when Lifeline/Ceremedix receive this year's Silver Fleece. From a promising upstart to another one of the legions of "anti-aging" quackery merchants.

Posted by: Andrew at March 7th, 2005 4:53 PM

In fact, there are a large number of interesting peptide drugs in early stages of development. We're under condidentiality with our clients so I can't give details, but my company ( http://www.cambridgepeptides.com ) works with biotech and pharma companies on drug R&D (they outsource the manufacture of the peptide molecules to us) - and we've seen a pretty big upswing in interest in our drug development offerings in the last few months.

I'd definitely say that peptide drugs are becoming a hot area again, after around twenty years in the doldrums.

George

Posted by: George Masih at March 14th, 2005 6:08 AM

Lifeline's 8-K SEC filing states that Protandim will be feautured on ABC News PrimeTime Live tonight. Perhaps this will shed more light on hype versus substance.

Posted by: Rob Stevenson at June 2nd, 2005 11:11 AM

i have hardening of the arteries. does it help with that?

Posted by: hal hedden at June 2nd, 2005 7:32 PM

Article here:

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/print?id=814805

Which is no doubt in the news as a result of their new funding; news placement works that way.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20050601006235&newsLang=en

But unless I'm misreading what's being put out there, Lifeline is ascribing Ceremedix's lab results to something that is not the compound Ceremedix was experimenting with? Something doesn't look right here.

Posted by: Reason at June 2nd, 2005 7:36 PM

Is CMX-1152 from Ceremedix on the market?

I have taken 3 of the ingredients for quite a while & perhaps the other 2 as well...I'd have to ck labeling on my herbals. Have never had a T-Bar test, so who knows?

But why the high $$$$$ Sounds like another "pipe dream" to rake in some of the money that is pouring into the supplement industry.

Posted by: Marny at June 2nd, 2005 7:56 PM

Has anyone heard of alpha lipoic acid and the beneficial effects it has on oxidation.

Posted by: Chris at June 2nd, 2005 7:59 PM

we are all looking for the fountain of youth. What is really killing us is the food industries with all the crap they are feeding us. Just watch TV, pizza ads, mac donalds,sub way 2 for 1, 5 pizzas for 5 dollars, 42 oz cokes, etc. The cure is in your local store! water, and unprocessed food! Yes we need a boost,a extra jolt of antiox, a vitamin, a workout, but most of all the will power to change our eating habits.In reality if you cant, than you are just a average, fat,pale,pice of shit that deserves what ever health problems you get, so quit lookig for that maricale and pull your fat head out of your ass..oh..and maybe go surfing.

Posted by: david at June 2nd, 2005 8:26 PM

Marny, to the best of my knowledge, CMX-1152 is not on the market. It has the look of something that would have to run the FDA gauntlet, which may go a long way towards explaining Lifeline's actions (that and the $$$$$, of course, as you point out).

Ceremedix does have a website these days, however, which may be worth a read:

http://www.ceremedix.com/

I should point out, while we're all here, that this is something of a storm in a teacup. %20 life extension in mice can be done with good diet - a few years here or there is far from the best that medical science can achieve. If you want a much longer, healthier life, then give your support to efforts like Aubrey de Grey's Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence (SENS) initiative:

http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/

Posted by: Reason at June 2nd, 2005 8:35 PM

Yep, he's right. Instead of searching for the fountain of youth. Start taking care of your body and eating right, you arrogant lazy sack of shit

Posted by: Spanz at June 2nd, 2005 8:36 PM

I have been monitering my energy meridians using an EAV device and having blood test to moniter my health. I found that puting specific antioxidents into a nebulizer has changed my blood chemistry and EAV readings. I feel much better and do not have that stomache upset as I do with pills. Has anyone else used a nebulizer insted of pills?

Posted by: williams at June 2nd, 2005 10:41 PM

williams,what do tou put in your nebulizer?

Posted by: buffi at June 2nd, 2005 11:01 PM

I was able to catch 4 of the 5 ingredients of the supplement, Protandim, on Prime Time, tonight. I heard that it included green tea, turmeric, ashwaganda and milk thistle. Is the last ingredient bacopa? Anyone out there know? Thanks. JC

Posted by: JC at June 2nd, 2005 11:16 PM

I'm not looking for the fountain of youth, but not one of you seemed to notice that it's the metabolic process that produces the oxidants...not the chemicals in the foods, etc. This is something that goes on no matter WHAT we eat. For this reason, it seems worth looking further into in my opinion. If what they are saying is true.

Posted by: Charity at June 2nd, 2005 11:32 PM

I am interested in living a more disease free life while I'm here, regardless of an extra 20%. I had a friend that lived to be 98, healthy, and longed to die to leave this place behind from the age of 88. Quality is what I'm about. NO NURSING HOME FOR ME!

Posted by: Charity at June 2nd, 2005 11:36 PM

JC, the five ingredients are:

* Milk thistle extract (Silybum marianum) (seed)
* Bacopa extract (Bacopa monneri) (aerial part)
* Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) (root)
* Green tea extract (Camellia sinensis) (leaf)
* Turmeric extract (Curcuma longa) (rhizome)

Posted by: Richard at June 2nd, 2005 11:59 PM

I am curious about this drug or herbs. I would like to know if the Chinese have used these drugs in china in this same form. If the research has been done in other countries, I would like to read their results.

If it truly does work... what about population?
The earth will be at it's capacity in 35 years. If the average age of death increases,... will that date reach us much sooner.

Sorry, I was just pondering on the other side of this question.

Would it lower our health ins?
If it does, I'm all for it.
SSS

Posted by: SSS at June 3rd, 2005 12:02 AM

It is a combination of five plant ingredients. Two of them are pretty commonplace ? green tea and turmeric, a spice used in Indian cooking. The others, among them withania somnifera, and silybum marianum, are more exotic.

The above is a direct quote from ABCnews.com PrmeTime site. It is still viewable

Posted by: Gail Henrichsen at June 3rd, 2005 12:59 AM

Hi Great World of Ours! We are so blessed to live in a world where studies like this are being performed. I watched the excerpt on Protandim last night on Prime Time and I could not contain my excitement. I'll tell you why. I recently had a breakthrough with my own health (in general) after seventeen years of excruciating pain in my muscle tissue, enduring muscle biopsies, extremely elevated CPK's and other testing, I discovered NUTRITION to be my saviour. Not ONE neurologist, or rheumatologist had a clue what was causing my body to burn my own muscle tissue for fuel. Even the morphine patches and other narcotics I lived on did not TOUCH my pain. In short, it was discovered through a simple blood test that I had a vitamin B6 malabsorption. Without going into too much detail, supplementation has CHANGED MY LIFE. I felt SO bruised-to-the-touch that I cried even if my own children hugged me. FOLKS, I am here to tell you that if I have been able to alleviate my pain 70% through the use of nutritional supplements, I am DEFINITELY interested in trying Protandim. I now have "QUALITY OF LIFE" but know that my body desires MORE and I'm not sure what it is. Protandim JUST MAY BE what my body is looking for. I (without a doubt) would like to try Protandim. If there is a clinical trial's study going on in Raleigh, NC, I would like to know. I don't want to offend anyone, but please believe me when I say that "our bodies are screaming for nutritional changes". How long can we continue to believe that our bodies can cope with all the stresses we have in life when we are feeding them junk food and processed food. Unfortunately, I fear that the current cost of Protandim may deter some folks who really need it, from being able to afford it. Is there any chance that the price may come down in the near future?

Posted by: Bonnie Camp at June 3rd, 2005 6:08 AM

If you have been using Protandim for a month or more, do you feel any different? I feel like my body is aging years ahead of my age. I'm stiff, and I've gain weight over the last few years. I also have a very bad back/neck. I've already had three back surgeries and a fourth major one on the horizon. I want to be free of pain because I don't do well on traditional medications for pain etc.. I get sick from pain meds. plus I'm allergic to most of them and Steriods. Any personal information with regards to my question would be greatly appricated. Thanks....

Posted by: Brown at June 3rd, 2005 7:00 AM

Anybody know the amount (milligrams per serving) or percentage of each of the following ingredients in Protandim? I am curious to find out which is the primary active ingredient(s) and which are less important additives.

* Milk thistle extract (Silybum marianum) (seed)
* Bacopa extract (Bacopa monneri) (aerial part)
* Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) (root)
* Green tea extract (Camellia sinensis) (leaf)
* Turmeric extract (Curcuma longa) (rhizome)

Posted by: JP at June 3rd, 2005 9:22 AM

I get my herbal stuff from botanical.com (Mountain Rose Herbs)
If you check I think you will find that the items in CMX-1152 are pretty much the same as in Protandim. One uses common name one the scientific name.
I get about a years supply for about the same as one month from Lifeline.
I am 67 years old, live alone with my dogs in the hilly country of Tennessee. I have not had to see a doctor in 15 years (then it was a car wreck, My neck was badly injured they recommended surgery, I declined. I healed) I never get even a cold.

Posted by: Lonnie at June 3rd, 2005 10:08 AM

Lonnie
What specifically is the name of the product that you say is similiar to Protandim sold on the botanical web site?? I looked and could not find it

Posted by: Lee at June 3rd, 2005 10:16 AM

Anytime something looks "too good to be true" it usually is. You can sum up the Protandim attraction via ABC's Prime Time Live coverage with one word "CAVEAT" Anytime there's "profit" involed...."CAVEAT"

Posted by: Jan at June 3rd, 2005 10:21 AM

Lonnie-

What you have posted is definitely exciting news but we need more information. I have tried looking up the "bacopa" on botanical.com and am unable to find it, even under what I think is it's generic name: water hyssop.

Can you please post:

The actual names of the items you buy from botanical.com.

How much you buy at a time.

How much you take on a daily basis.

Thanks-
Katina

Posted by: Katina at June 3rd, 2005 11:16 AM

Bonnie,
Did you have a doctor in the Raleigh area help your finally discover your B-6 absorption problem?

Posted by: Lisa at June 3rd, 2005 12:18 PM

Reducing oxidative stress is not anything new in the nutritional medical realm. It has been done for a long time now. I see Protandim as a way to reduce oxidative stress with one pill vs. many. Of course, one pill or one supplement is not the answer to health. It needs to be comprehensive, based on biochemical blood, urine etc studies, and will change over time as you change over time. The medical concept of oxidative stress and its reduction are well know in medicine and beneficial. Protandim is one of many products that can accomplish that. I plan on incorporating it into my regime....but not as a sole product.

Jerry...... M.D.

P.S. I do not own stock in Protandim

Posted by: Jerry at June 3rd, 2005 1:04 PM

Lisa,

I had some bloodwork done through UNC Chapel Hill division of Neuromuscular Diseases. Ironically, when my B6 levels came back, they were SO ELEVATED that my blood was "toxic" with it. My physician called me and told me to stop taking supplements AT ONCE. Strangely, at the time that my blood was drawn, I had NOT been taking any vitamins or supplements of ANY kind, nor had I been for five years. I had nothing to lose by doing the exact OPPOSITE of what he advised and headed to the local Health Food Store. But it wasn't as easy as simply taking a vitamin B6 supplement. You see, my body was unable to absorb B6 and therefore was burning my own muscle tissue for fuel. I needed other supplementation to assist my body in absorbing the B6 just like Vitamin D helps our bodies absorb calcium. So, on a daily basis I began swallowing Milk Thistle, Grapeseed Extract, a Multivitamin and a protein shake a day. It took SIX weeks before I noticed a difference and I was COMPLETELY SHOCKED when I noticed that for the first time in 17 years my muscle tissue was not ripping and tearing any more. I journaled my progress and made an entry of my "pain level" each day. Needless to say, I will continue the supplments. Although, I no longer take the milk thistle or Grapseed Extract, I take two multivitamins, a calcium and a protein shake a day. But I feel as if my body desires something more. I'm just not sure what it is. Quite possibly, it could be Protandim . . . I will give Protandim some serious consideration. Though for me, it's a little pricey. Supplementation, in this day in age needs to be a way of life, though I strongly believe it should not make us bankrupt in the process.

Posted by: Bonnie Camp at June 3rd, 2005 1:18 PM

If anyone can find another product that is less expensive than Protandim and of a similiar "compound" please let us know. Until I can find one I will use Protandim.

Posted by: Lee at June 3rd, 2005 1:49 PM

Has anybody tried Protandim? How long has it been on the market? How much does it cost??

Posted by: Qudsia at June 3rd, 2005 1:58 PM

lonnie, i went to botanicals.com, no CMX-1152, what is it you are taking that has the same ingredients but cost so much less?

Posted by: maria at June 3rd, 2005 2:43 PM

I am trying to locate protandim here in san antonio,TX -can you give me some advise on any store that may carry it.
Thank YOu

Posted by: Doris at June 3rd, 2005 3:09 PM

Bonnie,
Thanks for your answer. I am curious because my mother has had so many weird problems with no real answer. Her diagnosis is chronic fatigue but that has progressed to other very painful problems. It has gone on for years with no relief. I just wanted to know if you found a more investigative physician or if you researched and problem solved yourself. It sounds like your brain is your body's best friend! Good luck.
I saw the program last night and may try Protandim to avoid any "weak family" genes. Ha!

Posted by: Lisa at June 3rd, 2005 3:24 PM

My husband has refractory depression. He is allergic to most anti-depressants. Has anyone ever tried protandim for depression?

Posted by: izz at June 3rd, 2005 4:36 PM

Good evening.
I don't always take Bacopa as I take a lot of Gingko Biloba and I am not having any problems with mental acuity or memory. You can find it through Google, there are many sites which sell it.
What I use that is in Protandim is:Milk Thistle (Silybum Marianum)--Ashwaganda (Withania
somnifera)--Turmeric Root Powder-- and Green Tea which I get at WalMart. My typical diet is: Scotch oats(steel cut)and berries (dehydrated) and green tea. Rice and beans with Salmon or soy and green tea. Noodles and Ragu with home made lemonade and,for dessert, berries or apples (dehydrated). I also eat tomatoes, onions, garlic, cheese, yoghurt, 8 grain bread, and cocoa(Hershey, which is almost 100%) (sweetened with non sugar sweetener)made with powdered milk, and what ever vegetables I can get fresh, or I have canned,frozen or dehydrated. The only meat I eat is venison from my own land. My dogs eat raw venison, chicken or rabbit, with the bones.There is a feeder in the house which is kept full of a variety of premium kibble which they nibble a little of some days. I have not used a vet for an ill dog in my life. My families animals ate the same and never got sick. I have my own deep well, the water is great. I think that living out in the country where I see many species of wild animals and no humans, go to town about every two to four months to shop, keeps me stress free. No stress is one of the best ways to live, mentally and physically. I am from the Highlands of Scotland and was not brought up eating the typical USA diet. My Mom is 93 and in great health. Like me, or I am like her, never a headache, never a cold, no arthritis and good physical strength for our respective ages. One thing that is so good about eating like this and all the supplements (I take many others) is that the times when I have travelled and not eaten correctly I gain some weight. When I get home the weight comes off as quickly as if I were young.
Some of our great health is owed, I believe, to genetics. But if we didn't eat right and use the supplements which we do then the genetics would be overcome negatively. My opinion only. (and many years of observing people).
Sorry to be so long in my post. I do believe, from my own life, that the correct way of life and the correct foods, drinks and supplements, together with lots of fresh air and exercise will not only add to the length of our lives but can add quality.

Posted by: Lonnie at June 3rd, 2005 5:00 PM

Does anyone have anything to say about Dr. David Moskowitz GMED and their approch to anti aging, diabetis and other ailments and proposed cures and treatments?

Posted by: Fred Matthews at June 3rd, 2005 5:28 PM

where on earth did you get the info that
this planet will be at it's capacity in 35 years, sss?
and David, what are you on and where do I get some? you do need a dictionary...
pice??? maricale????? that's sad.

Posted by: ted at June 3rd, 2005 6:31 PM

Somebody should contact Primetime and suggest they go up to the hills of Tennessee to do a feature on Lonnie and his mother.

Posted by: Allen at June 3rd, 2005 6:40 PM

Lonnie, what non-sugar sweetener do you use?

Posted by: Suzy at June 3rd, 2005 6:43 PM

I GUESS YOUR'E RIGHT ABOUT THE BAIT AND SWITCH DEAL. I CALLED THEM TODAY AND AFTER A VERY,VERY, LONG AND CLUMBSY HESITATION,THE OPERATOR ADMITTED TO ME THAT THE PROTANDIM IS A DIFFERENT FORMULA THEN CEREMEDIX CMX-1152...TRY IT YOURSELF,CALL:1-877-682-6346...THANKS FOR SAVING ME 50 PLUS BUCKS...DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANOTHER POWERFUL AND PROVEN ANTIOXIDENT THAT WILL LOWER THE T-BARS? I'M 57 YEARS OLD AND FEEL LIKE 75...THANKS AGAIN...LON

Posted by: LON at June 3rd, 2005 7:12 PM

One of those ingredients is Saffron. Also called Tumeric I think. Anyway Buddist Monks use it to dye their robes. Now I ask you. Have you ever seen anyone more stress-free than a Buddist Monk? Could it be that the Saffron dye leaches into their skin from their robes. No so far-fetched when you think about it. On the other hand my mother who was born in Spain put Saffron into almost everything she cooked. And boy was she always stressed out. You have heard maybe about the Spanish spitfires. Or maybe Saffron just doesn't go well with red hot peppers.

Posted by: Edward Cochanski at June 3rd, 2005 7:12 PM

FRED,I JUST HAVE PLAIN OLD ARTHRITIS IN EVERY JOINT IN MY BODY.I'M JUST LOOKING FOR A POWERFUL ANTIOXIDENT TO DO BATTLE WITH SOME FREE RADICALS THAT ARE KICKING MY BEHIND.I THINK EVERYTHING I'VE TRIED IS A LOAD,AND THIS PROTANDIM PROBABLY IS JUST ANOTHER STEAMY LOAD. AND I'M SURE THERE WILL BE ALOT MORE PILES TO FOLLOW. LOOKS LIKE THAT OLD DOC YOU TOLD ME TO LOOK AT,IS LOOKING FOR SOME FINANCIAL BACKING TO FURTHER HIS LOAD,AND MAKE HIMSELF A PILE.I'VE LOCATED ALL THE INGREDIENTS IN PROTANDIM AT BOTANICAL.COM(MOUNTAIN ROSE HERBS)EVERYTHING BUT BACOPA EXRACT.ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO FIND THAT CRAPOLA? I'M NOT LOOKING TO HAVE MY GENE'S MAPPED AND ISOLATED. I JUST WANT TO REPRODUCE WHAT PROTANDIM WANTS 50 BUCKS FOR A WHOPPING THIRTY CAPS,THATS ALL.ANYONE KNOW HOW MANY MG'S OF EACH TO USE? WHY DON'T WE ALL TAKE UP TORCHES AND STORM AND PILAGE THE PROTANDIM LABS,AND MAKE THEM FESS UP THEIR TOP SECRET NUMBERS.I MEAN IF I MAKE UP MY OWN CONCOCTION,WHATS THE WORSE THAT CAN HAPPEN? DEATH? I ALREADY FEEL LIKE I'M KNOCK,KNOCK,KNOCKING ON HEAVENS DOOR. I THINK FOR 50 BUCKS YOU CAN MAKE WAY OVER A POUND OF THIS NEW MIRACLE ANTIOXIDENT.SOMEBODY HELPPPPPPPP! I THINK THAT JOHN WHAT'S HIS FACE NEWS MAN WHO IS TESTING THIS STUFF IS TAKING THE REAL DEAL CMX-1152. I MEAN COME ON,IF THIS CRAP IS SO WONDERFUL,AND THE PROTANDIM PEOPLE ARE SO WONDERFUL,AND THIS STUFF IS SUCH A BOON FOR MANKIND,WHY DO THEY WANT 50 BUCKS FOR SOMETHING THAT PROBABLY COST THEM .50 TO MAKE,IF THAT. I THINK TOMORROW I'LL BREAK OPEN A GREEN TEA BAG AND CHEW IT FOR BREAKFAST.HOW ABOUT A GREEN TEA LEAF DIET?I BET YOU LOSE A LOT OF WEIGHT...SORRY,THIS ANTIOXIDENT THING GOT ME GOING CUCKOO FOR COCONUTS. HOW ABOUT THESE PROS ARE GETTING A TAN OFF OF DIM WITS.GET IT? PRO-TAN-DIM.SEE YOU!

Posted by: LON at June 3rd, 2005 8:59 PM

CHECK THIS OUT! SOME YAHOO IS ALREADY SELLING THIS PROTANDIM ON EBAY.GET THIS...HE WANTS 51.99 +12.50 SHIPPING + 3.00INSURANCE(REQUIRED)I GUESS HE MUST HAVE AN IN WITH THE PROS GETTING TAN ON SOME DIM WITS.HE SOUNDS LIKE A REAL GIVING HUMAN BEAN,DON'T HE?

Posted by: LON at June 3rd, 2005 9:18 PM

Lonnie,
I would like to learn more from you.
Since I live in the foothills in Tennessee,
it would not be difficult to visit with
you sometime, perhaps.
If you would not be opposed to
having a bit of a student, please email me
at lonnie@elkrivergroup.com. I can respond
via email, and give you more information.

Thanks,
DJ Vorhis

Posted by: DJ Vorhis at June 3rd, 2005 9:31 PM

Hi Lonnie,

I would be interested in your diet and where you find certain foods. My Dad's name is Lonnie and his ancestors lived in Thorn Hill (East TN. mountains). My grandpa lived to be 98 and I don't think I have his secrets.

Posted by: Betty White Martin at June 4th, 2005 5:48 AM

Does anyone have any experience with or knowlede of products such as "Cell Guard" made/sold by BioTec Foods in Huntington Beach, CA?

http://www.biotecfoods.com/

The tablets contain concentrated plant enzymes and isoflavanoids and are apparently made of hydropronically grown sprouts using a "special moisture removal process to preserve active nutritional factors". The manufacturer claims their product "has been shown to enhance the body's production of Superoxide Dismutase, Catalase, Glutathione Peroxidase and Methionine Reductase."

I'd appreciate any comments.

Posted by: Bruce at June 4th, 2005 6:31 AM

BRUCE...SOUNDS GOOD,BUT VERY EXPENSIVE. I HAVE A N/K SEED SPROUTER,I PAID 2.00 FOR (NEW) AT THE FLEA MARKET. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF YOU SPOUT ALFALFA,MUNG BEAN OR ANY OTHER KIND OF SPROUT AND REALLY LOAD UP ON THEM, YOU PROBABLY WILL GET THE SAME RESULTS,BUT A WHOLE LOT FRESHER, AND A WHOLE LOT CHEAPER. AFTER ALL THEY'RE GETTING THE SOD FROM SPROUTS,RIGHT? LET'S HAVE SOME INPUT ON SPROUTING SEEDS,AND WHICH ARE THE BEST TO SPROUT. BRUCE,I THINK THEIR PRODUCT SOUNDS VERY GOOD,BUT SO DID THE PROTANDIM AT FIRST,RIGHT? PLEASE HELP WITH MORE INPUT...THANK YOU BRUCE.

Posted by: LON at June 4th, 2005 7:43 AM

BRUCE,CELL GUARD EVEN STATES THAT THEY USE A SPECIAL ESTRACT FROM SPOUTED WHEAT. SO MAYBE I AM GOING TO SPROUT SOME WHEAT,AND EAT PLENTY OF IT. AFTER ALL,WE ARE SEARCHING FOR AN INEXPENSIVE WAY TO GET HEALTHY RIGHT? THANKS FOR OPENNING UP MY EYES BRUCE.

Posted by: LON at June 4th, 2005 7:53 AM

In the fall of 2002, we began publishing a series of papers showing that angiotensin I-converting enzyme (ACE) is a major aging gene. The papers can be downloaded from our company website at: http://www.genomed.com/index.cfm?action=investor&drill=publications

We've already been able to show that it's possible to achieve regression of atherosclerosis by aggressive use of ACE inhibitors. For example, we published patient outcomes showing regression of diabetic and hypertensive kidney failure. Since 2/3 of people die from atherosclerosis, this is not a bad first step.

What's even more interesting is that overactivity of ACE seems to be behind most cancers. One-third of people in the First World die of cancer. ACE inhibitors, which are normally used for high blood pressure, may actually help treat as well as prevent cancers. Angiotensin II, the product of ACE, is a key angiogenesis factor, and operates upstream of VEGF. So ACE inhibitors are anti-angiogenesis factors.

Finally, aging involves neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. We and others are seeing good effects of ACE inhibition on these diseases.

Before states rush to spend billions of dollars on stem cell research, they could spend a few hundred thousand dollars on clinical research using ACE inhibitors. I'm confident we can save at least 30% of health care costs, and lengthen life by 5-10 years with better quality of life, if we just put the adult population on the right dose of the right ACE inhibitor (for which GenoMed owns the patent-pending).

Posted by: David Moskowitz MD, MA(Oxon.), FACP at June 4th, 2005 9:42 AM

Lisa, have you looked up the connection between chronic fatigue and Candida?

To everyone: I am thinking of trying Protandim for my Arthritis (at 22), It's expensive but I want to live again. There is a money back guarantee.

Posted by: bebe at June 4th, 2005 10:31 AM

What an interesting web site. When I saw the show on abcnews about Protandim, I had to do a search and find out more about this.
I would really like to hear more about how Lonnie makes the same mixture to save money. That seems like a lot of money to spend for a months supply of Protandim. Can I be a student of Lonnie too? I'm in MO, and actually play Fiddle and Clawhammer Style banjo. Maybe I could learn a few new tunes while I visit? A lot of those old tunes come from Scottland and Ireland, thought to be lost from 300 to 400 years ago. Alan

Posted by: Alan at June 4th, 2005 11:20 AM

HEY LISA,50 BUCKS FOR 30 PILLS? YOU DON'T OWN STOCK IN THE COMPANY DO YOU? DIDN'T YOU READ FURTHER UP THIS PAGE ABOUT BAIT AND SWITCH? YOU CAN GET EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO MAKE YOUR OWN FROM MOUNTAIN ROSE HERBS JUST LIKE LONNIE STATED..............HEY LONNIE...WHERE DO YOU GET THE BACOPA EXTRACT? RIGHTO LONNIE,YOU CAN MAKE ABOUT A POUND OF THIS CRAP FOR 50 BUCKS.LISA.......HAVE YOU READ ALL OF THESE COMMENTS FROM THE BEGINNING? I HAVE ARTHRITIS ALL OVER TOO,BUT I THINK I'LL GET A BLOOD TEST AND SEE IF I HAVE THE VITAMIN B6 MALABSORBTION. YOUR THE SAME LISA WHO POSTED THAT MESSAGE? RIGHT? NOBODY SELLS CMX-1152 AND PROTANDIM ADMITTED TO ME ON THEIR TOLL FREE LINE THAT IT IS NOT THE SAME FORMULA AS CMX-1152. LONNIE HOW MANY MGS OF EACH TO MAKE BOOTLEG BATCH OF PROTANDIM? EQUAL AMOUNTS X THE 5 INGREDIENTS?

Posted by: LON at June 4th, 2005 5:07 PM

I'M SORRY LISA THAT MESSAGE WAS FOR BEBE.

Posted by: LON at June 4th, 2005 5:10 PM

in response to experience with "cellguard", mine was
exceptional!! my elbow was so inflamed, i could barely move it, after aprox. 2 months on this supplement,all reddness and pain was gone,this was 7years ago! i continued use for4 months longer. it has not come back.i would definately go back to it.ialso drink kyogreen.
sharyn

Posted by: sharyn at June 4th, 2005 6:36 PM

Looked deeper into Protandim today and this is what I have found. According to the company's web site, their proprietary blend of the five herbs are a total of 645 mg. per tablet with a one tablet per day recommendation. Have listed here the five herbs and the active ingredient of each in parenthesis.

*Milk Thistle Extract
(silybum marianum)
*Bacopa Extract
(Bacopa Monneri)
*Ashwagandha [also called Winter Cherry]
(Withania somnifera)
*Green Tea Extract
(Camellia sinensis)
*Tumeric Extract
(Curcuma longa)

At the web site http://www.herbalprovider.com I bought two bottles of each of the following (free shipping for orders over $50.00):

*60 capsules - $8.95
Milk Thistle Extract
(175mg 80% Silymarnin)
*60 capsules - $9.95
Bacopa Pure Extract
(250mg Bacopa Monneri)
*60 capsules - $11.48
Indian Winter Cherry
(250mg Ashwagandha)
*60 capsules - $5.95
Green Tea Extract [certified potency]
(333mg Extract per capsule. 50 mg Polyphenols)
*60 capsules - $8.95
Tumeric Extract
(250mg Curcuma longa)

Total mg for one of each of the five capsules is 1258 mg. I am going to assume this probably surpasses the 645 mg in Protandim. Total cost for a 60 day supply at one of each of the five per day is $45.28. When you compare to the $49.95 for 30 of the Protandim and factor in twice as many doses and twice the milligrams, in my mind I am paying 25%. Will post what I experience in the way of service and reliability from this company. Have not ordered from them before. Will also post what my wife and I experience after a month or so of taking these.

Best wishes all.

Posted by: Paul H. at June 4th, 2005 7:29 PM

eh hows it going?..if somebody has Diabetes..would would anybody say to do or take?...a) watch blood sugars...b)? c? d? what supplement/s are great for it?..I know of.just eating good and watching blood sugars..thru.food and medicine(insulin)..but want to do the MOST I can do..naturally....so if anybody knows..what are the top 3 to 5 things I should take..if I have Diabetes?..blueberry extract?..Vandium? greens? fiber? chromium?..any vitamins/supplements?..anyways thanks..

Posted by: Kevin at June 4th, 2005 7:31 PM

Tumeric and Saffron are not the same. Saffron
or azafran as it's known in Spanish is the stamon
of a flower (Day Lilly I think).

Posted by: Jack at June 4th, 2005 7:56 PM

KEVIN ASK YOUR DOCTOR IF YOU CAN TAKE CHROMIUM PICOLINATE. I READ THAT IT HELPS YOUR BODY UTILIZE THE INSULIN YOUR BODY PRODUCES MORE EFFICIENTLY. BUT I GUESS IT DEPEND ON THE SEVERITY OF YOUR DIABETES. BUT PLEASE OH PLEASE ASK YOUR DOCTOR FIRST. I MEAN ARE YOU ON THE NEEDLE OR JUST BORDERLINE?

Posted by: LON at June 4th, 2005 8:09 PM

Saffron is derived from the stamens of the Saffron Crocus.

Posted by: Alice at June 5th, 2005 5:03 AM

HEY PAUL H THANK YOU!!!!!! I PLACED MY ORDER WITH HERBALPROVIDER.COM TODAY. I THINK I WILL OPEN THE CAPS , WEIGH UP THE TOTAL OF EACH HERB CUT IT IN HALF,THEN RECAP THEM WITH MY HANDY DANDY CAPPING MACHINE.I WILL THEN HAVE A 120 DAY SUPPLY OF 629MG CAPS INSTEAD OF 30 645MG PROTANDIMS...MAYBE 1258MG MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MUCH ON THE BODY.YOUR T-CELL LEVEL MIGHT GET DOWN TO A 2 YEAR OLDS,AND YOU'LL BE WALKING AROUND GOING GOO-GOO DA-DA.........HA-HA THANKS AGAIN...LON

Posted by: LON at June 5th, 2005 11:14 AM

Hey Paul H., Thanks for the GREAT info. We all appreciate it. I went to the site you mentioned, but couldn't find tumeric extract. Also have you taken into consideration ( I'm sure you have ) of the possibilty that there may be lots of one ingredient and just a little of another to make the combination work well. I certainly am going to go your route and and VERY anxious to hear back from you about anything further you've found out about the ingredients and of course your thoughts on how it is working for you....thanks..Dennis

Posted by: Dennis at June 5th, 2005 11:15 AM

Hey Lon..Did you find tumeric extract on the site. I typed it in, but nothing came up...Good idea about halfing it. You're right , what if wice is much may be too much.....Dennis

Posted by: Dennis at June 5th, 2005 11:19 AM

Hey Lon, again. Is there indeed a capping machine??/. Where do I get that...Thanks..Dennis

Posted by: Dennis at June 5th, 2005 11:21 AM

the percentage of ingredients MUST have a bearing on effectiveness or EVRYONE would make their own Protamdin..Im surprised they even show ALL active ingredients on label...or do they??
and Lonnie...ever drink moonshine there in Tennessee? (just a thought)

Posted by: Rick B at June 5th, 2005 11:36 AM

and,,the ABC Protamdin show was on again this week..origianally aired in 2003..was it the SAME show or an update?..and if the product was no good..wouldn't you think the recent showing would have some new info as to same?

Posted by: Rick B at June 5th, 2005 11:39 AM

I know ..I spelled PROTANDIM wrong

Posted by: Rick B at June 5th, 2005 11:41 AM

I found them all at:
http://nutritiongeeks.com/index.asp

Lonnie,

Did you buy the herbs in bulk from botanical.com and fill your own capsules? Do you have one of those capsule capping machines too?

Lon,

Where did you find your capping machine?

Thanks.

Posted by: Trix at June 5th, 2005 1:13 PM

Hey Trix. I went to mutritiongeeks.com, but no tumeric extract. Were you able to find tumeric extract on their site. I typed in curcuma longo as well. Where did you see the tumeric extract?????? Also to Paul, If we get the ingredients from here, it looks like we could just break the tablet in half instead of filling capsules. Thanks.Dennis

Posted by: dennis at June 5th, 2005 2:20 PM

Hey Trix..Dennis again. If you get them from nutritiongeeks.com you won't need the capping machine.......Right?????....Dennis

Posted by: Dennis at June 5th, 2005 2:26 PM

For the Tumeric Powder on herbalprovider.com, if you put the term curcuma in the search box, it comes up.

If you have a capping machine, you can probably buy the herbs in bulk, blend well via weight, and cap a blend. Seems like most capsules have about a 250 mg. limit for most herbs. That would give you approxiately 50 mg of each of the five Protandim ingredients.

If you also capped some full capsules of each, that way you could experiment with two blended caps of the five, and a full cap of a single ingredient rotating through the five for that single ingredient cap every two or three weeks and see if one made more difference than the others.

Also there are a lot of herbal blenders that practicianers order blended caps from as a wholesaler so that they can spend more time with clients and less time blending what those clients need. Don't see why an individual could not order from such a source once they establish the ratio they prefer.

Also found a good resource site. The name is Ask The Doctor Online. They are not selling anything. The web address is http://www.atdonline.org.

If you click on the "Download the Literature" link, you go to a page with 39 write ups by medical condition. The one on Memory and Focus talks about Bacopa. The one on Liver Health and Milk Thistle obviously talks about Milk Thistle. Have not read through them all, but they seem to be factual with references to check and not a lot of hype.

Kevin, they do have a write up called "Controling Diabetes with Nutritional Supplements" that you might find interesting. The direct link to that report is http://www.atdonline.org/atd/Controlling%20Diabetes%20with%20Nutritional%20Supplements.pdf

Posted by: Paul H. at June 5th, 2005 4:48 PM

TRIX,ALTHOUGH SOME OF MY FRIENDS CALL ME LONNIE.MY NAME IS LON. THERE ARE TWO OF US CRITTERS HERE NAMED LONNIE ON THIS CHATLINE.I'M THE OTHE CRITTER,JUST CALL ME LON. ABOUT THE CAPPING MACHINE.ANY GOOD BIG VITAMIM STORE SHOULD CARRY THEM ALONG WITH DIFFERENT SIZE CAPS. I HAVE HAD IT SO LONG I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE I BOUGHT IT.I THINK IT WAS JUST OUTSIDE OF CHICAGO AT A STORE NAMES FLANNIGANS.TRY ANY OF THESE HERBAL SITES THE FOLKS HAVE BEEN LISTING HERE...SEE YA

Posted by: LON at June 5th, 2005 7:04 PM

Kevin-

There are some medical studies out right now that say if you eat cinnamon it will help control your blood sugar. They recommend 1/4 teaspoon or more per day and you can just mix it into your food.

Katina

Posted by: Katina at June 5th, 2005 10:55 PM

In my web surfing about protandim I came across this interesting thread about protandim "CF". This is the first I've seen "CF" associated with protandim. It may be different than what is currently being sold, ( I don't know ) Anybody know anything about that...Dennis

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=69&t=2082&hl=lifeline&s=

Posted by: Dennis at June 6th, 2005 5:35 AM

DENNIS...cap.m.quick.com is where i bought my capping machine. JUST CLICK ON THE RED (LON)BELOW AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS MESSAGE.

Posted by: LON at June 6th, 2005 8:18 PM

DENNIS...cap.m.quick.com is where i bought my capping machine.

Posted by: LON at June 6th, 2005 8:19 PM

REASON..........WHY DID YOU DELETE ALL MY POSTINGS LAST NIGHT?

Posted by: LON at June 6th, 2005 8:25 PM

LON, see the note on the comments to this blog: "Please note that comments incorporating ad hominem attacks, advertising and other forms of inappropriate behavior are likely to be deleted." Advertising in this case; I've been cutting people far more slack than I normally do given the topic in question, but a line is a line.

I do suggest that folks who want to discuss supplements and supplement-related issues in a more condusive, helpful atmosphere step over to the Immortality Institute's supplement forums:

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=SF&f=6

Posted by: Reason at June 6th, 2005 8:31 PM

YOUR THE ONE WHO STARTED ATTACKING PROTANDIM TO BEGIN WITH. I WAS GOING TO BUY A BOTTLE UNTIL I READ YOUR STATEMENT ON PROTANDIMS BAIT AND SWITCH TACTICS.MY ONLY INTENTION WAS TO SHOW PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN PURCHASING A CAPPING GIZMO THAT THERE ARE MANY MANUFACTURERS OF CAPPING MACHINES AND SOME ARE EVEN FOR SALE ON EBAY. SO THERE ADOLPH......B.A.D.B.Y.E

Posted by: LON at June 6th, 2005 9:24 PM

Lon.....Thankyou very very much for the capping info. It was very helpful. Everyone who would not have any idea on where to purchase that, is thankful to you.......Dennis

Posted by: Dennis at June 7th, 2005 1:16 PM

What happened to everyone. Did this forum stop?
Lots of comments in a few days and then NONE???????????

Posted by: Dennis at June 10th, 2005 7:46 AM

That's the way traffic spikes go Dennis. You'll find more continuing conversation over at the Immortality Institute forums:

http://www.imminst.org/forum

Posted by: Reason at June 10th, 2005 12:11 PM

I did receive my order from nutritiongeeks.
I ordered and received Turmeric as named Curcumin.

I went to http://www.capmquik.com and ordered the capper so I can order the herbs in bulk next time.

Posted by: Trix at June 15th, 2005 8:08 AM

Kevin, I have been pre-diabetic for two years. For the first six months of the past year I was taking a formulation of Metformin which I couldn't tolerate and which did little to help. I was changed to Glucophage XR 500Mg Tablets (a different formulation of Metformin) which started to help and was easier to tolerate. I also read a column called "Eatsmart" by Jean Carper where she recommended Chromium Picolinate (200 to 1,000 mcg. daily, Cinnamon (1/4 teaspoon twice daily) and Alpha-Lipoic Acid (600 mg. daily.) These, used in tandem and with the approval of my doctor have brought my Hemoglobin A1c from 6.2 down to 5.7 in the past six months.
I also have changed my diet, but not drastically. Just added healthier substitutes and decreased the use of white sugar. Best of luck to you. Jennifer

Posted by: Jennifer at June 24th, 2005 5:34 PM

Due to a flood of nonsense and spam, I am closing comments on this post.

Posted by: Reason at June 26th, 2005 2:48 PM