Propaganda for Death and Aging is Everywhere
We all live in societies in which near every formative story and teaching glorifies the process of aging to death. The foundations of our myths paint death through aging as an essential, good thing. This is the natural outcome of thousands of years of creative human culture in which nothing could be done about aging. People came to terms with it by building tools - stories, myths, coping mechanisms - to enable psychological comfort in the face of the horrible and the inevitable. The best of these tools prospered because they allowed the societies that used them to prosper, and so we have today what has been termed the "pro-aging trance". We are now entering a new era, however, and in an age of biotechnology and medicine capable of addressing the causes of aging, these lies that we tell to ourselves about aging and death have outlived their usefulness. They have become a dead weight dragging us down, slowing the growth of support for rejuvenation research that can bring an end to the pain and suffering of aging and age-related disease.
Two clichés really ruined a recent moviegoing experience for me: the implied, groundless cliché that 'living forever is not as nice as you think, it's something only bad guys would want and it comes at a high price' creeping up throughout the entire movie, and the inevitable 'death gives life its meaning' cliché. I am really tired of hearing this false mantra being mindlessly repeated over and over. Books, movies, newspaper articles, people - everyone seems to be persuaded that without death, life would have no meaning. No one, though, bothers explaining why this depressing claim would hold true, and if they do, their arguments boil down to unconvincing, carelessly generalised hand-waving about how you couldn't properly appreciate a good thing without its opposite. That's like saying that in order to appreciate not having cancer, you need to have had cancer first. I appreciate how being mortal may make you see things differently from how an immortal being might see them, but that is not the same as death being mandatory to appreciate life.
So, please, stop. Stop repeating this dangerous and foolish mantra. Don't let movies, books, or anyone tell you that death gives life its meaning. Don't let anyone decide for you what is the meaning of life, or what gives meaning to it, because in general, there is no such thing. Meaning is relative, not absolute, and you get to decide for yourself what gives meaning to your life, not an age-old piece of nonsense people perpetuate merely to sugarcoat death. Death is nothing special. It is not a monster. It is not a foe, no more than the status of 'broken' is for an inanimate object. Death is the name we give to the status of a biological creature whose body is too damaged to keep functioning. That's all it is. I don't know what gives meaning to your life, but I can tell you what gives meaning to mine. People I love. Things I like doing. Music I like listening to. Playing piano. Drawing. Writing. Learning new things. Having fun with friends. Discussing science. Enjoying a beautiful landscape. Wondering about the countless mysteries of nature we haven't solved yet - and many, many other things.
We have hospitals to cure sick people. We have international organisations trying to save people in poor countries from starvation, to put an end to war and help its victims. Why all these initiatives aimed at preserving our lives, if death is what gives it meaning? If you are struck by a fatal illness, why turn to doctors to save your life? Perhaps the time has come for death to give it meaning. Do you see the nonsense yet? The very idea that death gives meaning to life, when we've tried so very hard from time immemorial to stave off death for as long as possible, is absurd-or perhaps, a hint that we don't care that much for our lives to have a meaning after all. Does all that you do, feel, and care for, magically become worthless if you don't die? Are the people you love dear to you only because one day you won't have them any more? What about the things they have done for you, or the fact they understand you like no one else does?
No, I don't think death gives meaning to life. Things I fill my life with give it meaning, and all my death is going to accomplish is taking those things away from me. (Or rather, it's going to take me away from those things.) Ageing is the worst example of this: It gradually makes you more and more unable to dedicate yourself to the things that give your life meaning, thus making your life more and more meaningless. Eventually, it deprives you of life entirely. So please, stop repeating the death mantra. Stop believing in this crazy nonsense. I understand where it comes from, and I understand our need to rationalise death, but it is time to move on. It is time to look at death for what it is and keep on refining our tools to stave it off indefinitely, so that people can live in perfect health for as long as they wish.
Link: https://rejuvenaction.wordpress.com/2016/11/07/please-stop/
I could write a whole story about it. People who glorify aging and death, drive me to desperation. I can invalidate all of their arguments and I can do it with ease. I've come to realize that these people not only do not know what they're talking about, but also they don't take themselves very seriously. Here's why: If i was to believe that a large number of people are reluctant to view true and reocurring rejuvenation as something positive, they invalidate one of their most brought up arguments against it: risk of overpopulation. When only few people take advantage of it because so many people know better, the effect will be undramatic.They could talk their way out by saying that many people on this planet are dumb and don't act responsibly and that they are an exception. They would then imply that most people on this planet are just dumb and there are no deeper reasons why they would consider rejuvenation, even considering their sheer number (if their overpopulation arguments is to hold true). In all other cases, the effect on population change will not be dramatic. The truth is this: Once rejuvenation becomes widespread and more and more people take advantage of it, maybe even close relatives or friends of the people who now so vigorously promote death, they will succumb and there's no doubt about it. Let them get older and frailier while their peers make themselves younger: can you imagine what is going in their minds when they are sitting on their loneliness in the retirement home. We have seen it in the past that most people are very slow when it comes to paradigm shifts, but eventually they will succumb. Their word now has no meaning for the future. In that sense, the hardest time is NOW, but it already costs many lives and much funding for ther industry.
I could go on forever and ever.
All of this is true, but there is one clear, overriding fact to be seen in it: we have to create stories that both show and tell people about life that doesn't have or need death. For all the movies, stories, and such that claim death is necessary, there must come those that state the opposite and do it convincingly for their audience.
This is what I want to see more of, and incidentally, is what I myself am working towards.
Assisted Reproductive Technologies (ARTs) like PGD/PGS, karyomapping, Designer Babies and others will produce fewer children in future. When you create smarter children they will reproduce less. Only the uneducated reproduce without thinking - sometimes thinking, in my country they want the social good that comes from having a child and live off that income themselves.
Smarter people could get their own job.
I watched this movie, too, and my thoughts were exactly the same.
@Sadi Khan: There is "The Man from Earth", for example.
Hi,
I think it's a bit like the twilight zone effect : people are both against it and for it. People are unsure about how they are suppose to react when told of infinite health/lifespan and curing death (immortality). It's an internal tyranny between wanting it and not (judging it negatively). Part of them (the very primal traditional one like the reptilian brain, passed down in the collective ancestral DNA and through infinitely repeated human death conditioning inscribed in it) reacts in a hostile fashion/against it, because of the artificiality of it (unnatural rigged process, human death is natural and was chosen for us through evolution), certain reasons like overcrowding, resources drought, boring life, don't be selfish die for the others, more people more wars, more problems than less, etc but the biggest one is people are not 'sold' on it - yet. Until a mouse is rejuvenated and it's death fully cured; people don't buy it and they don't buy paper theories or rejuvenation therapies that come up short (for now).
Yet, at the same time, think : '' Could it be Really Really ... Really possible ??? Really ? ...It seems... Yes. Oh My God. ''.
Well, god has less say here as this is entirely man-made control of evolution. And man-Will made, no god there.
Religion says we are playing god with DNA epi/genetics, rejuvenation and changing 'thy flesh in a petri dish under the eye of a microscope; not under the eye of god.
This eeriness and unease creates this uncanny valley towards infinite lifespan and death reversal. It's sci-fi, yet not so
science-fiction anymore; but actual, proven, True Science in Reality. The Twilight zone again, the Uncanny valley again. It never happened Ever in humanity's history that humans could be immortal, and, Now - We're There : it's a lot to fathom.
A bit like telling someone they have cancer, many if not basically everyone will, mostly, react negatively; since it's their very own life at stake and death is a sooner prospect. Infinite lifespan is also about (the fate of) one's own life.
If we find a way to make it happen sooner than later, this pro-death trance will lower down quite strongly when we go from sci-fi to true rejuvenation curing death (in a mouse for starters). All these pro-death problems will become much less problematic. Now that we will have infinite lifespan and healthspan, 20 or 60 biologically For-Ever long we wish, we'll have Plenty (aka infinite) time to solve these problems - 'cause we will still be alive to solve them in the first place.
While, natural religious anti-science pro-death people will be sadly gone and missed. We can't change their opinions through words, only through actions like creating an ''aberration'' of god and nature - a lab-evolved, tinkered, mutant why not, a rejuvenated X-Men mutant mice who thwarts Death. People will want heroes yet again, DC, Marvel, etc X-Ray SENSed up mutant mice will look very heroic just like the X-Men movies. X-men wars of pro-death people vs bad mutant rejuvenated
X-men ? Who knows, I hope it doesn't get there, since curing death was always an altruistic gesture for everyone and is just turned into a selfish Holy Grail Quest to be the first, and only one, who gets immortality.
Today I went and saw "Dr. Strange". Good movie, but I noted that in the scene where The Ancient One died, she used the line of "Death is what gives life meaning". I note, also, that this is a character that tapped dark energy to stay alive for centuries and even then noted that she wasn't ready to go. I could read into this some support for life extension but I'm mostly seeing the exploitation of this very tiring trope yet again.
In fact, I'm seeing it pop up a lot lately. I would surmise that this is because it's quite a topic in recent years - a good thing to be sure, but I'm inclined to think that movie-makers are simply utilizing the status quo (which is mostly deathist) to appeal to their audiences. This is why I think it's very important for stories to be told that don't do that, but instead push things in the other direction.
We are very capable of creating story devices that are both reasonable and optimistic; we've said many times how it makes no sense to extend life to simply let it end, and we've identified that the logic is broken. The catch is, of course, that some people need to be engaged emotionally, not logically - storytelling is one of the oldest and most revered professions for a reason. To me, every time I see the aforementioned trope abused, it's another step backward when there should have been one forward. Given that we can't directly stop that from happening, we're just going to have to make a parallel dialogue that does what we need it to, one that will eventually win out over the other one.
To not do that is to delay what we need to happen, and I for one find that unacceptable.
@Sadi Khan I couldn't agree more. I've written several essays and comments on the topic of the emotional manipulation of crowds and the demonstrable sham of reasoned debate. Absolutely emotions must be the primary target of any campaign of persuasion. I know this comment is very late, 4 years, but did you ever end up writing anything?
It is original ironic that I got the notification of this thread being brought from the dead while I was looking at the painting dance macabre (https://i.imgur.com/oZG8Gsp.jpg )
One society is past the last acceptance stage of death and aging. It is not only accepted but rationalized to be good.
And that's pretty.. rational since aging cannot be ignored, rejected , negotiated, anger is unproductive so you have to accept it and deal with it. And this will be the status quo until they're a human study of reversing of at least slowing it down to some different degree, which is stronger than our struggle variance. Anything tangible that increases the healthspan, younger looks , even without increasing the lifespan will help.
For now don't have anything convincing that can be brought mainstream