Defining the Longevity Industry to Exclude Those Who Circumvent Rigorous Clinical Trials
As the longevity industry grows, the need for investment grows with it. A big leap in funding is needed to move from preclinical to clinical development, and ever more companies are arriving at the point of making that transition. Raising the few million dollars in seed funding needed for a small lab team to produce proof of principle studies to demonstrate that a novel therapy works in mice is a very different prospect in comparison to raising tens of millions of dollars to conduct GMP manufacturing and phase II clinical trials in humans, never mind the even larger sums needed for later phase III trials. The types of investors to participate at early and later stages are very different, with very different ideas of risk. It is typically the case that larger the check, the more institutional and conservative the investor.
Institutional, conservative biotech investors care greatly about the way in which they are perceived, since their ability to raise funds from limited partners is very much affected by that perception. When it comes to investing in the longevity industry, conservative investors are attracted by the potential for profit, but bothered by the long-standing existence of a fraudulent "anti-aging" marketplace, alongside numerous groups claiming membership of the longevity industry while selling supplements or treatments via medical tourism with claims that are in no way backed by rigorous evidence. These investors have carefully cultivated reputations, and fear the loss of reputation that results from investing sizable funding into ventures that fail. And some fraction of ventures always fail. When those ventures were by-the-book, nothing-new-here, conservative endeavors that checked all of the proper boxes, that can be forgiven. But venturing out into the unknown? That is less forgivable.
Thus as the longevity industry matures, elements within it are creating industry associations and paving the way to a perception of the longevity industry as a by-the-book, rigorous, nothing-new-here endeavor, just like the rest of the medical biotechnology space. They draw a circle that excludes everyone who sidesteps the existing regulatory system for drug development: the supplement companies; the cosmetic companies; the companies focusing on medical tourism rather than the FDA; and so forth. Today's position statement is authored by the founders, investors, and leadership of a number of the longevity industry companies closest to clinical trials. This is a part of the process of laying the groundwork to make it easier to find the much greater funding needed for the phase II and phase III trials that lie ahead.
Defining a longevity biotechnology company
The Longevity Biotechnology Association (LBA) is a non-profit organization created to foster collaboration, propose guidelines for industry, educate stakeholders, and translate geroscience to prevent the diseases associated with aging and extend healthspan. Billions of dollars are being allocated to basic and translational research in aging biology, but parameters and guide rails for the longevity biotechnology industry remain undefined. The efficacy of a new intervention can only be rigorously demonstrated by a sufficiently powered clinical trial. Today, there are products on the market that claim to boost longevity but lack robust scientific evidence in humans to support these claims. Academic scientists, drug developers, and entrepreneurs developing new drugs arising from aging research need to direct their efforts toward elucidating the mechanisms of action of potential interventions and conducting human trials. Similarly, investors, regulators, members of the media and others require a framework to evaluate the claims made by translational longevity biotechnology projects and their potential to demonstrate effectiveness of an intervention in humans.
The LBA proposed framework for a longevity biotechnology company includes four pillars: (1) mission, (2) drug discovery approach, (3) initial clinical development and regulatory approval, and (4) targeting multi-morbidity and healthspan. By creating a framework that defines best practices in longevity biotechnology, we hope to facilitate communication with audiences that include drug developers, investors, regulators, policymakers, journalists and the general public. Clarification of the field's goals and approaches will help to direct resources to efforts with the greatest potential for trial success and regulatory approval, move innovations from the bench into clinical practice, and ultimately improve the lives of older adults.
Interest and investment into the longevity drug development space continue to grow, with the number of players in the sector expected to increase. Following the proposed framework by having a specific mission, generating a drug that targets known hallmark mechanisms, and going through the processes of early- and late-stage clinical trials will demonstrate to any scientist, investor, company, journalist or member of the public that a specific organization is positioned to contribute positively to the field of longevity biotechnology.
When a novel field of research captures the interest of academics, investors and the public, it is common for various approaches to proliferate. Some of these approaches will leverage novel science to yield patient benefit. However, as noted, less rigorous actors might exploit the public interest to sell products to consumers and patients. The onus rests with the experts within the new research field to help non-experts distinguish between the two. In the early 2000's this was done expertly for the stem cell field by the International Society for Stem Cell Research (ISSCR), which has helped maintain and update those standards in recent decades. We helped create the LBA as a non-profit entity to achieve a similar goal. Although the organization is still young, we have put forward this framework to identify those efforts that have a high likelihood of contributing to the goal of not just creating new interventions based on aging research, but also demonstrating that the interventions increase human healthspan in clinical trials.
Have you looked at the members before you wrote this?
The only thing that counts is genius and successful innovation -- finding drugs and therapies that genuinely expand human lifespan. The FDA and bureaucracy are deadly enemies of this.
@Zantonavitch, agreed, that's why I think medical tourism will have real medical rejuvenation much sooner the US or Europe.
Big Pharma is mostly crooks just after money. It's why anything they can't patent like natural herbs already out there, proteins and molecules etc don't get any attention after initially showing real good results. As far as medical tourism if something like Katcher's E5 translates good to humans it could be a game changer. I am sure just like with Ivermectin and Covid big pharma would have their media friends plant fake stories saying you are putting your life in danger though if you take it.
Hey there! Just a 2 cents. TL DR: It's saturday...take some time....off; get coffee get comfee, to read it.
I concur (with/share) others' view that it is very unfortunate that the longevity field 'aims wrong' or at the wrong target...but, the big reason is (at stated here) is the 'tangibility'; or, in this case, intangibility/lackthereof (of tangibility); to many investors -- these antiaging supplements or low-yield therapies are 'more tangible' and quicker to arrive to mass market..hence, (more) tangible; than a 'possible, maybe, one day, we might' (make a) therapy that solves aging. It's because (as said, again) it's the failure(s); investors were 'burned' in the past and don't to invest 'in risk' (venture risk); Some risk - is safer; but solving aging - is anything but that; it is Very Risky; and demands that one puts their money - at risk (of never getting it back/making it back). Hence, I think that inverstors saw the writing on the wall and were just being more prudent, thenceforward (after several 'been burned' events, putting money in 'dead end' investments...that made them no money); or, as said here, 'reputation sullied'...they want to make a 'judicious choices' (read: bang for the buck'...) as in ROI (return on investment) and thus, make the Right (read: ROI/returning lots of revenue, on said) investment.
But, in life, you do your best to 'control risk'..but you can'T control it all, some things are beyond your control; hence, why the: ''You have to take the risk(s)...no other way''.
But, I understand, that having the control of their money (being, their, money and they can do whatever they want with it; invest it in the most insignificant thing...or, the most significant);
Investment Risk is the big reason why things are so tepid....and timid...about 'taking risks'...
it's ultra 'Risk Calculation' (calculating risks); and 99% of the time...they think: ''not worth it, not worth bothering...not worth losing my money''. It's Calculated (alreadt)--- 'it's 'at a loss'....
hence, they don't want to lose their money -- Understandably.
But, they forget something.....when you have BILLIONS of dollars....I mean... sure, spending
1 Billion of your Precious Money 'Bs'... is scary...1 Billion is Beaucoup Bucks...but is it FOR YOU?...nope, for you it's just a drop in the bucket. for 99.999% of the rest of the population 1 B is giganormous money that no one will ever reach in their lifetime.
Now, you may say : ''But I have 100 Billion Dollars...if I spend 1 Billion...that's 1% of ALL my money...''.
Right....you still have 99% left..... we would all live to Only spend 0.1% of our money on whatever (so instead of spending 1 Billion, that person would spend 100 million dollars - out of their 100 Billion dollars in the bank account). Obvioulsy, not 1%, but 0.1%...
But, as Money Rises...so should that 0.1%....raise to 1%/1percenter...of money spent.
OR ELSE, it's 'spending crumbs/miette/pittance'....in comparison to what this person has in money, in Total.
100 Million Dollars is a Lot....but not that much when you have 100 Bs.
''But, we don'T want to 'spend it all' 'too quick' 'too fast' and 'Burn it All''...that 100 Billion can be Burnt ...in no time, like quarters coming out of car's exhaust pipe, throwing money out the window or burning cash paper bills, to make a camp bonfire.''
At a Certain Point, You Have to Risk More...or else, nothing happens....
And we're stuck, with low-end/low yield therapies, nothing Advances in the industry/domain....because 'too safe/too timid/too protecting dollar bills'...
Who wants to lose their money?...no one.
But who wants to die of aging? Well...many, it seems, It seems, that investors might want to die, after all. Or rather, they don't believe for a second (''too intangible/''no proof product so far''/unconvinced/not worth investing in high risk venture'');
Their money, is worth more, than their life.
''I would prefer die rich...than live eternally poor.''... (not exactly that...but close to that).
Aging is a 'hazard'...
Hazard = Odds.
Odds = Risk.
(bad) Odds = High Risk/Fail.
No Rolling The Dice = Nothing happens.
No 'Double or Nothing' (poker) = Never win at poker.
At a certain point, these investors must stop being only 100% prudent...and take a 5% or less chance...95% prudent is good enough'...you have to take that 5% 'hazard/risk'..gamble it.
Like a poker gambler.
You don't wanna gamble your money, totally understandable, you wanna make money, like a business making judicious choices..to make it money, roi.
Business don't die of 'aging'.... they die of 'lacking money'.
You die of aging - because you run out of time. (and money, if lacking it), when you are too old.
That money is worthing nothing now, besides offering you a 'yatch life' at 90....and 'buying off companies left and right'....or Outright 'buying the country in entirety'...
You might 'own' the country...in entirety. But, on the Life...you will still die, on clock - 122-140 max
To me, that's very 'self-defeating'...it's spending money at the wrong thing ------> Healthy Aging therapies and whatnot --- Tangible; we see results...loweffort/lowgain/'safe product'-'safe return ROI'....
Safe ROI, make money....'die rich'.
Thanks for reading, Just a 2 cents.
PS: If I had 100 Billions I would put Billions to defeat aging; nothing, would be more important; except a family member of mine dying of a disease -- THEN AGAIN , the WHOLE point of defeating aging...is STOP THAT... in the first place. But, some people, 'circular logic'..running in circles with them...we want to defeat aging to NOT have to 'save your family member, dying of some horrible death..''....but not, ''HEALTHY AGING to the rescue...invest in that $$$ kaching...''.
PPS: Sorry, for getting ahead of myself...I ahve seen too many people die...that money is just 'some thing' in life...a 'resource' you have or you don't...and TIME is what we are limited in...money runs out, well, when you have 100 Bs...it's FUN...it's less fun when you are poor...
and when you have 100Bs...you have EVERYTHING....what else could you want...you own it all...EXCEPT one thing --- Time. You run out of time, when die..of aging. Time if Finite Resource, due to our biological aging. Investors 'don'T 'Get''....the 'CAUSES' of aging...or they get it, but they did not put the money in the right ventures that would materialize into something tangible; that would extened lifespan dramatically; and FINALLY, they would, stop putting money in a 'money pit' called healthy aging.
PPPS: For that, to happen, it's up the researchers to tell these investors, PROVE them, this study Fixes the damn causes of aging...you know like Mrs. Parrish herself injecting her telomerase in her cells...she is reversing aging...and now, she is absolutely a 'ghost' in the news...did she age, did she reverse her aging....they said the epigenetic aging continued...lots of unanswered questions linger and it's shrouded in mystery (because 'avoiding FDA' and 'doing medical tourism'..).
PPPPS: Last PS, I now know exactly what determines the maximal longevity of any animal; it is a combination of things yes....but there is a clear 'Stream'...and you can attack it almost upstream or downstream and it would affect the whole chain; of course, if More Upstream, the power is much stronger, because it is Upstream, and thus, more consequential/the 'starting knot'.
1-(O2/respiration/ROS), Specifically, ETC Mitochondrial H2O2 emission rate ----->
2-Mitochondrial H2O2 consumption rate (via Trx/TxrR/Glutathion thiolpool) ----->
3-Mitochondrial Redox milieu -mV (oxidized vs reduced state/with age; oxidized) ----->
4-Mitochondrial Lipoperoxides formation/IMM phospholipid PUFAs oxidations ----->
5-Mitochondrial DNA destruction (in periphery) ----->
6-Nucleus DNA destruction/DNA DSBs/SSBs ----->
7-Telomeric DNA foci/telomere DDR/y-H2AX marks/telomere attrition acceleration ----->
8-Inflammation (generalized)/'inflammaging'/activation of 'low kb telomere size inflam. genes'-->
9-DNA repair Helicase loss/less efficient repair/slow repair,or no repair - DNA DSBs frags cumul>
8-Chromosomal fusion/recombination/decompaction/havoc/SCE/DNA uncoiling/progerin ----->
9-Cell Spontaneous Senescence or Replicative Senescence -----> 10-Extracellular destruction/degradation/macromolecular damage ----->
11-Epigenetic Drift(ing)-DSBs/Accel.Epiclock/methylationchange/Transcription/genesilenceloss->
12-Stem cell replacement dwindling/stem cell niche 'overuse/exhaustion',no tissue replaced --->
13-Tissue damage/lesions/aging tissue/cancer/diabetes/atherosclerosis/grey hair/wrinkles/ sagging leathery collagen-empty skin/aging organs....animal death.
This is applicable to a 3 week fly, or a 30 years old Naked Mole Rat....
same between a 37 year old temperate clam, or a 370 year-old icelandic A.Islandica polar clam.
This latter one, lives 370, not so much because it ages slower (well, it does, absolutely, being near metabolistically dead) but, that's because its systems are 'better' that 'catching' the damage before it is 'consequential' to the life of the animal.
I.e. It is better to STOP ROS than play the 'catch up game of 'damage repair'...
It's important because this was demonstrated between a 3 year old mouse and a 500 year old clam...
The mouse has decent to 'okay' 'damage repair' compared to a 500 years clam.....then why does it only live such short life....Because, it accumulates Far MORE damage than the clam ever will in its life....the mouse is damages Exponetiallly More...than the clam.
Now, the easy answer is 'damage repair' like repairing a car...and at that, the clam is better; but the Mouse Repairs Well....like, its repair systems Function and Repair....then why? does it die so soon then?...Because it's capacity to 'consume' the element tha damages is much Lower;;
called the Mitochondrial H2O2 emission rate....but, specifically, the Mitochondrial H2O2 Consumption Rate....yeah, like 'antioxidants' that 'quench oxidants'...same thing. Our mitochondrias have antioxidants - 2 main ones/main systems (TRX/GSH/REDOX)....if they are blocked...feeding yourself NAC or Vitamin E...only gets you so far....meaning, they are Nigh Nowhere in Order of Magnitude 'consuming' like these 2 intricately 'in tandem' systems are in the mitos. Well, when they compared a 3 year old mouse, a 30 year old temperate clam and 300 year old polar clam; there it was --- they all had about the same H2O2 production in their mitos...
except, for one thing, the 30 year old temperate clam consumed 10 times more of this ROS, while the polar clam consume 100 times more of it.....there was direct relationship between mito ros h2o2 consumption of total MLSP of any animal. mito H2O2 is the upstream that Causes the DSB/DNA strandbreaks and then causes the epigenetic clock to advance. It is Order of Magnitude more Powerful to Consume h2o2/ROS...than 'try to repair DNA damage' caused by it - as downstream cascade. The saying is: ''don't fix something that needs no fixing...'' or
''don't fix 'patch' the damage...fix the Source that creates this damage''. Otherwise' cath up game/patch up game; it seems (obviously) that AVOIDING ANY damage is much more powerful than 'repairing it - later' when it manifests. And, the major source, is that radical emission rate in mitos. Now, why would it be So Devastating and 'dictating' lifespan...because, you have BILLIONS...no Trillions...no QUADRILLIONS of Mitochondria...that'S a Sht...load of 'stuff' to 'stop' producing H2O2....EACH and Eveyone of these mitos 'contribute' h2o2....is orders of magnitue impossible to 'stop'...Hence..with age..they will produce more and more h2o2 as the emission rate increases -- old mitochondrias/dying mitos - make Massive ROS together...than means Massive DNA damage/need more and more Repair...catch up game/pathc up....game.
Quadrillions of mitos -- impossible to 'stop the damage' BY ALL OF THEM...it damages you every second...until your death. THIS IS WHY..a polar clam lives 300 years....it consumes the source BEFORE EVEN HAVING A CHANCE..of this whole cascade...--At the Source, in the Mitos themselves - at their ETC (Electron Transport Chain) in the Complexes (Complex I-V), there the H2O2 happens.....well, 500 year clams and sharks,...consume that orders of magnitude...more. So antioxidants...don'T work...because not 'at the source'...albeit, there was MitoQ and Ubiquinone/Ubiquinol...they are good but yeah never enough....why? because, in your mitos, there a 2 main thiol/antioxidant systems that are in Every mitos (4 Quadrillion of these systems); TRX(thioredoxin/PRX(peroxidredoxin/GST(glutathione-s-transferase)/GPX(glutathione peroxidase)/y-gamma-glutamatylcysteine(Gsh
maker)/GSH/Redox....worked perfectly to consume this every second when you breathe O2 and 'rust/oxidize'...if we don't work on the Redox or the Other elements in the chain (because it is a chain, and if you act on a knot of the chain, it has en effect, but will never be as strong as at 'the source'; so far, the other 'downstream elements' all yield weaker results -- because nowhever in 'order of magnitude' of impact as 'at the source'....), we'll never reach 500 anysoon anytime. There ahve been studies on mitochondria but almost nothing of modulating them --besides MitoQ, which are targeted to mitos...but always lackluster...that's because they don't alter the 2 'first protection' in-situ systems there. For example, sometimes, I take melatonin, a supplement for sleep that has Very high quenching capabiliyu (much higher than Vitamin C, E, A, astaxanthin, flavonoid... etc etc); and is naturally produced by pineal gland, for sleep inducing. It is so powerful at quenching that even beats the 2 systems in the mitochondrias theirself...but, there's just 1 small problem; melatonin does not 'reside in permanence' there...it'S just something 'exogenous' that is 'intaked' and then it Gets in the mitos and works its magic (just like MitoQ or Ubiquinol, CoQ10/Co-enzymeQ10) in the ETC/mitos; but, it's not enough, we have quadrillions of mitos...it's a 'nano drop' in a 'universe' and thus, you understand why these 2 systems are so protective; it's because they are 'present' in these 4quadrillionz of mitos...hence, 'doing the job - at large scale'...melatonin affects a couple of them...that's it; certainly not 4 QUADz'S of them. With age, the quadrillions just 'take over' and thus, it becaomse 'untenable' -- supplants the system- that is OVERWHELMED by the stocastic accumulation/rise....both of emission, reduction of consumption and unrepaired damage/residues cumul taking their toll over the years.
A controversial article.
In light of the comparably slow, trudging movement of our cause (for lack of a better word), I suppose that it must be frustrating to many here to see recent worldwide initiatives to overcome covid and climate change (and now Ukraine), apparently out of almost nowhere, on top of regular daily activities - with some estimates taking us from 10s of $Billions -to- 100s of $Billions of investment and allocation for each, over limited periods of a few years to a few decades. A large-scale mobilization over multiple countries, mass media outlets, new regulations, coordinating and enriching academia, industry, and government -- overcoming popular and entrenched dissent -- and somehow activating resources that were otherwise engaged in full-time, day-to-day operations. Those somewhat latent and unfocused resources. To be able to rally them to something that is already showing various avenues of potential and near-term results. How much of the covid success (if we define it as such?) was from Big Pharma/ FDA and when did they mobilize and produce/ guide and to what incentive/ motive? I would argue that they were unwilling and distant spectators until quite far along. They followed the academic breakthroughs, the government special orders, the popular outcry -- all these fringe elements, yet somehow coordinated; somehow sharing, somehow collaborating -- on top of their daily commitments, contrary to their typical protocols. Such is the way with anti-aging: coordinating the scattered, grass-roots, independent researcher/ lab, off-label, out-of-country/region, etc. No one needs to be first or quickest or protective of such-and-such advancement -- which is the capitalist investor/ publishing academic/ early-stage company way. We need to coordinate and mobilize the latent, pre-existing resources and collaborate without exclusion to provide the seeds to let big business, big regulation do what they do best - guide large-scale distribution. Not all Investment$ are ideal Investment$ when they obstruct overall goals.
Hi Jer! Just a 2 cents.
This is just a very vague/not too sure answer....but, I think (2c) that Big Pharma/FDA/Regulatory bodies were cautious (nothing wrong with that, we all want a therapy - that has NO side effects; alas, it's rarely the case; it's why FDA are 'adamant' & (so) 'anal' about it...because they want to avoid - killing millions of people 'by error'....by some side effects of an 'unknown/unsure/obscure' therapy....it's understandable -- they're taking 'precautions', to minimize people Having to Taking Risks...when taking some (possibly?) dangerous therapy (with deadly Unknown 'side effects' ---> FDA = On the Safe Side)); there's nothing wrong to 'being on the safe side', to avoid some impending doom/dire/deadly event later on - that could - have been prevented, if we had been more 'preventative'; and,... that's what FDA do ----- prevention. The saying is: ''One ounce of Prevention, is better than One Pound of sorries (..later)''. With that said, they do abuse...and then some. Playing a bit too much the 'nanny' ---chicken mother hen Overprotecting her chics....
i.e. the tweety-chics are suffocating and 'smothered'....'can't breathe'...mother is overprotective.
'Over(t)governing'...the gov Overgov..ning. To the point, you wonder what You decide anymore..
The gov wants to decide for you, force you to its decision(s) and 'tell you what'S good for you'.
Like parent, or nanny, same thing, doing 'what's best for their children'--understandable; but, we are adults and as such, our decision and our (personal) choice(s) matter too as (adult) Individual.
I prefer, Altogether, that they Overprotect --- than Underprotect (if we are forced to these 2 choices and, can't have the 3rd choice of ''protect us.....-enough/measured enough - with Some Leeway/Lax..so we can breathe/have some 'room/cut some slack'/lax....')....
But, that'S the Downside of it....they control the Medical Domain, even biogerontogical/rejuvenation domain/industry...so yeah, not much 'leeway' to 'try' stuff...
FDA probably refuse 99% of the stuff submitted to them....unless 100% SureFireBulletProof.
But, that does not exist -- there is always a risk -- with Any therapy..
But, to answer your question, FDA/Regulatory bodies during COVID-19, I think they were 'slow' (same here where I live with Health Canada, no better than FDA) but they finally 'picked up'...it's just I am saddened by teh Immense Loss of life in USA during COVID (we had huge loss of life here too...but nowhere in numbers like USA; that was striked very hard); I think, you are right, that it seems that it was (rather) the Urgency of things...the Imperativity of 'solving' this virus 'world problem' (Because Covid waas a Wolrd problem/spread planet wide)...and that'S the irony and sad thing...they don't see Aging as important AS COVID...like just 'some thing...' that happens as you get older...I mean, I understand that a person would say: ''WHYYYY??? would ''''aging'''' be such an important thing and that we ''''need'''' to care about it?''
Not Realizing the Elephant in the Room ----> They will die of aging.
(or rather they do realize, and very much know they will die; all people know that life ends and we die of aging...) but, they ARREST to that...MIND - ARRESTED.. to that.
Nothing crosses their mind...like, 'Hey maybe we might do something about it...like when the WHOLE PLANET Bandied Together to Defeat COVID.'
But....aging?.....nah....ppshhh....that's stuff for cracpots and weirdos/sci-fi GURUS....
How many times have you seen/experienced someone dying in your life....
it's like...it completely passes over their head----6 feet over the head (didn't get the joke')...
They SAW many people die...and yet...CONTINUE to be 'fatalist' and self-defeatist..about aging.
That's because, Jer, they (are stubborn, since humans have been stubborn about 'dying' since 3 millions years -- we accepted our fare --- we die. (of aging)) -- DEFEAT; self-defeatism once more. Abandonning the CHANCE of Finally -- POSSSIBBLYY....beating the damn aging problem.
But, no, it's just ''Why woud we EVERRRR want thattt??? WHOOO? would ever want that?...besides some teenager selfish 'immortalist' or crackpot guru selling snake oil 'antiaging'?''
Jer, that's what the moralists and ethicists repeat on and on (have love/hate relationship w them).
It's like,,, they don't see the FINITNESS.. of life....they see, rather, the INFINITNESS of death...as good (thing). And, me, I think you kind of guessed by now, that my POV, is inverse.
(or rather, you could, in inverse, they do see the finitness and why they say: ''Life Fast, die young...you only have one life -- so make the best of it....Profit While You Can...and then Die.''.
which is exactly that, Acknowledging the Finitness of our life...but, don't have 'an anwer' to this finitness -- besides wishing you a nice life...and then, that's it that'S all.
What about CURING the 'life'....to them, there is No curing, there is NO 'need' to CURE anything..
----> Just live you life....'be happy'....'be gracious of having Had a life'....live it fully....then..... Die.
WoW.......yeah, thanks; but, no thanks. Not interested anymore. Had atherosclerosis, nearly (already) died...once was sufficient...dying 2 times...yeah, no.
To conclude this long ramble....sorry; I think gov/medical industry needs to learn from the COVID/FDA etc....and like WHY don't they want to GROUP together...to defeat aging... SOLVE aging....like they PUT SO MUCH EFFORT -- Global Planetary Effort -- to beat Covid and They Did.
But ....................aging?.....no...niet, nothing, nope...
It's Biggest Error - ever, it Shows that AGING COULD be solve Much Faster...IF, the entire planet 'chimed in' - just, like they did During Covid 19.....but....they don't want...
This demonstrates that it is a Question of Money/investment...and IMPORTANCE...like, they don' t think aging is THAT important....COVID was MORE important (obviously) as people died of covid...thus there was a 'change of priority - Repriotitizing -- Re-(a)locating Money -- Towards making COVID 19 Vaccines to save people's Lives in the IMMEDIATE...of the virus rampant...''
Urgency/Emergency/Immediacy/PriorityRise/Imperativity of the Direness of the Situation...
COVID-19 killing millions...need solution/anti-dote...immedialitey...so they 'mobilized' the entire planet to fix it. Lots of Cash$$$ to do so.. (and Big Pharam...did (i think) try to 'gain $$$$' from covid vaccines making...'cash in - on COVID/dying people'..)
They don't see that-----in aging... IF aging was INSTANTAENOUS...and people died one day to the next - they would have FIRE to thei prov. *ss....and they would realize they need to fix aging -- real quick with 'some' 'temporay' solution...
It demonstrates that there is a 'lack' of funding, a lack of 'taking risks/investment', a 'been burned before' -- we failed to 'Fix Aging...so it's pointless/we abandon...throw the white-flag of 'defeat'..'', Billions of Dollars (trillions? even) have been 'Thrown' at aging...with no success...'real Tangible success...besides 'antiaging/heatlhy aging/supplenment' stuff...that helps therapeutically...but does, almost, jack (squat)...for Aging. The Biggest killer in ALL...is aging.. but people are like...no it's just 'some thing' that happens in life...like, 'extinguished life'..when life ends/you die of aging...it's NORMAL and thus 'Good' (because in humanity, humans always died of aging, so , is normal - and EVEN SOUGHT/Wanted (fatalists/self-defeatists)). As I repeat several times here, if Eternal Life was Given on a Silver Platter - Free - Tomorrow...many would spit on it.
They would have Moral/Ethical' objections to it. of course.
Thanks for reading,
Just a 2 cents.
PS: It goes to show, we defeated COVID, we absolutely Can defeat Aging...just the will still not there..sadly. To me..it completely Surpasses my mind (now, before I use to not care..but now, I do, because (I realised that) all, and I, age...and one day, the curtains 'End/Fin.' will roll-in).
For those who like to wildly speculate....
How successful (or not) do you think the LEV mouse study will be?
and if so... how much will it change the world's attitude/direction about treating aging?
Hi Gregory! Just a 2 cents. TL DR: I can't make this short...it's long.
[I (like to wildly) speculate...so let'Speculate..(forspecul-ating), all I say is 2 c, conjecture.. my middle name is Speculator or, Conjector ---BTW, did you know that a 'specular' is the brighest shining spot/point - of any surface/material..diffuse, normal, reflect, roughness, the Specular/the specul(e) (the shine/gloss' of a surface (that gives it 'its life'/its 'veneer/lacket finish/varnish/its complex surface look'), called (surface) specularity -- and not, 'speculation (..'on surface/not deep/shallowly')), nor 'speculation (financial speculation/predicting the $ inflation/dowjones/ wallstreet/bank/market speculation), let's say, we can speculate, about a, lot of things...].
I mean, it Can be successful, but many of the things I stated (that relate to maximal longevity) and not really taking in account...in the LEV studies on mouse...I mean, that they want to make a 'combo' study...that regroups many types of studies 'in one package deal'...because, clearly, one study, is very unlikely, to solve aging - by itself, alone....there's just so many tthings to 'touch on' and 'fix ..on/at...at same time..'...it's like requires mega-mobilizing and requires attacking Aging on All sides...to let any that we might have missed...Like the damages that are spoken are quite true when they say if we solves these damaes we could make robust rejuvenation...repeated;
but, I mean, they say that it would be ENOUGH to solve aging, and I want to believe to them..it's just I'm not so sure that they target some Other problems that matter - even way more..that what they will target....again --wrong targeting.
So, if you want my 2 c, it's that LEV can happen, but if we DON'T aim the things I said...no, ain't happening anytime soon; because LEV needs those things I said...LEV Surpasses the Maximal Longevity of Any Animal (inclusing humans...an animal, biped h.sapiens, like chimpanzees/ apes/primates, BTW we descend of them as separate offshoot branch that left down of (hanging in) 'the trees') to do sedentary 'running/walking/marathon/traveling by foot/discovering world/faraway tribes, on foot, not stuck in trees like ape, not discovering anything besides their jungle/forest; it was demonstrated that our 'walking/standing/running...moving' on 2 legs...made our brain grow and helped to make 'discovery of the earth/large travel on foot'; because the brain produces BDNF (Brain-Derived Neutrophic Factor -- it increases neurons; this BDNF is produced when you walk/exercise...so exercise is (almost) more powerful than 'maths or brain twisting qith questions'...--exercise activates brain protection and neurogenesis; this walking by anceint hominin boosted
brain/crane capacity and made us more 'intelligent' ...by exercise...walking; so it'S not because someone only walks and is analphabet that they are not intelligent; they just not have learned the 'code'...to speak...does not mean unintelligence; in face, this person may be much more intelligent that us, because they know many other things (this was demonstrated in ancient tribes -- that invented codes/hunting/practices...taht sometimes we just don't understand today...but they made it in the ancietn past; proving, that there are many 'different intelligences' not 1....there is abstract intelligence/reasong, emotional intelligence, mathematical/calculatory intelilgence...etc etc..many of them; but, of course, 'speed of thought'/speed of reflex/CNS neural, neuron/nerves, motricity, are closely related to intelligence..being slowmo is bad for your brain; because, you can have difficulty understanding (obviously) but just not 'fast enough' and with AGE...our brain 'slows'...and it'S really like a IQ drop and especially, a slower speed of thought(s); it just takes longer 'to think' (millisecond/seconds)...and that'S bad if always like that (you can have a mind that is a 'processor' - takes time and 'Analyzes' slowly..does not mean is slow...is just a 'type/track/style' of mind; the person can still 'think faster' if needed - like a reflex)...because if slowing it is precusor of brain 'pruning' (brain gray matter/white matter shrinking/brain volume loss), senilility, dementia, retardation, mental difficulties...when they say: ''mentally challenged/disabled'', yeah.., my uncle died of Alzheimer's that another one, with amnesia/dementia/forgetfulness/memoryblank/holes -- TAU Amyloid in brain/brain amyloid and brain holes/cheese-like brain filled with holes -that have tau plaque amyloids/ceroids/drusen residues in them (Alzheimer's)........just 'slowness/bluriness/mental fog...that can also be advancing depression/suicidal/mental 'darkness/cloud'...dark thoughts.. also);
So, Gregory, to answer (and finish the long ramble), it - will - be successful, Only, if it attacks the things I said....I mean, the other things they say, like the hallmarks...SENS hallmarks (7 forms of damage); like AGEs (glycation), lipofuscin, lipid peroxides...that'S just the tip of the iceberg; and, most of them , are Downstream...not upstream; it May end up that, for examply, entirely removing Lipofuscin continuously Might make LEV...because lipofuscin clogs the cell to its death and immortal cells (cancer) accumulate no lipofuscin; but, it's a 'cause or correlation' thing...like is lipofuscin a cause or it is a correlation...'some residue that happens - from the metabolism...as 'end product/byproduct of it'...'...like AGEs (Advanced Glycation End* Products...they are somethintg that happen/and Downstream from the metabolism - they happen OF/FROM the metabolism.
When AGEs are injected in mice...of course they cause havoc and are problematic...but if we REMOVE THEM in Entirety....does this mean lipofuscin, ceroid, drusen, and the WHOLE REST...just 'magically disappears'..it'S highly unlikely; this means, that AGEs, like Lipofuscin or some other residue...is rather a 'SECOND LAYER' of 'aging' (or 'degenerative aging; not, 'regular aging'); you could REMOVE THEM ALL...'regular aging' would continue its course...Anyway...
And, Gregory, that 'regular aging' is the things I mentioned in my previous message explainging what dictactes the maximal that an animal can reach; it is Extremely consequential and has been repeatedly shown in 10s of hundreds/rthousand of studies....to me, it is (if not) the biggest 'weight' in importance; we are trying to solve the Other things; like AGEs, lipofuscin and such...
but, it's just (still) a small part of the equation; the Biggest/Bigger part of the Equation is the things I named (namely - the BIGGEST ONE - DNA, dna repair, damage, mitos' ros, telomeres loss, redox, replicative senesence, histone loss, chromosome loss,...yep those ones; those, are massive deciders of the total Longevitgy...and not just 'average lifespan'...they go beyond that and reach the MLSP, above it and now, to the LEV) and, I feel, from I gathered they are among the most 'Upstream' of this 'aging' equation and thus, have a large 'weight' in the balance....than trying to tackle some other methods..that will Generally yield Low Results/Low Efficiency -- even, Redundancy (like when mouse results are translated to humans...as nill.).
Just a 2 cents.
PS: To answer last question, IF if does happen --- and it will - happen that'S my 2 c/POV...I know I cold be totalll wrong, but it CAN happen, absolutely, an semi-immortal animal exists...it's not SCI-FICTION....this animal exists (Hexactinellida/Nutriculla Turritopsis...an quasimmortal jellyfish that uses Telomerase in its germ cells and does the 'loopdloop' on and on--back to 'teenage' self...immature self...and thus rewinds its age...it uses Telomerase -to never have shrunken telomeres - and this animal was even compared to a 5000 year Bristle Cone Pine...it lives millenais...the reason?...well, this Californian USA Pine boosts in cyclic bouts 'telomerase' in its meristematic cells/trunk stem cells and roots stem cells...only the branches die off; its trunk and roots are recontinuously 'remaking theirselves' via telomerase in its stem cells' telomeres... Exaclty, like that semimmortal Jelly Fish); so, to answer your question, if it Does happen (and it will, only maybe not in the next 25 years...it could take 50-100 years...realistically speaking)),
my POV/2 c....is that it WILL change the World's attitude/direction/POV about aging....that 'Treating' aging....will even be (sort of) of a misnomer/wrong word....like treating --aging, will be seen as obsolete and 'wrong' even...in some aspect/point; because, that'S what we have been doing (since god knows when)...'treating' (Bobos)....I mean, a cure ...is a 'treatment'...but the 'treatment' in the head of people is a 'patch up/patching thing'...of aging -----> Healthy aging.
It is simply 'Graceful aging' or 'not hurting---aging'....'you get gray hair...you 'mature'...you are Old and Wise...Good...Wisdow....Aged...Grizzled...'.
You took some 'treatment' and treated your aging...because you age..so the Treatment is some cream you put in your face...to try to 'make it Less apparent...but not so much to the point you look younger than your 20 year old nephew...neither..(weird...much)''.
So... I mean, that'S the Hic...right now, people see aging as some thing that you can Only 'treat' and 'put band-aids on'...and slowly decrepit...GRACEFULLLYYYYY...and then...hit the bucket.
;.......DIE(d).
You are are not sad...you 'aged gracefully' you 'extended things' and you lived 'long' and now you r time 'is up'...so, you, die.
Well, Gregory, people better start getting used to the WEIRDNESS and the GURUS wanting to sell you 'antiaging'----but, if funny, unlike the (bad) apples,, these gurus...are ACTUALLY ('ackxualllyy.....aaaAaCkkkYuUallLlyYYy'') selling you ----NOT---a lemon.
I say to people: FATHOM IT.....get used to it; practice your mind -- your imagination -- think...that in the future....'HOLY...SHT...' ''nobody dies...?''....Bizaarrrr....WEIRDNESS FACTOR 100% TWILIGHTZONE....step into the Twilight Zone, lik the British Doctor Who show....
People, when faced with the Uncanny (uncanny valley) --- elicit 'mirror neuron' --- 'cold feeling'..so they will of course (by brain neuron mechanism) 'shun it'....'as weird' 'uncanny'...
In their head, Immortality/LEV is straigth in the Uncanny Valley. It's when we are so Close to Reality -- Yet So Far (still)...we fell in the valley...but, we are slowing climbing back up to the top; and that's reaching the 'RealityTM'....
It's When - the RealityTM ----------------> ImmortalityTM/ImmorealityTM....
This Reality (i.e. Immortality) -- will BE - a reality and not ficiton anymore.
So people will have to Accept this reality that we CAN have a choice to live However Long we CAN/Could/Want/if we wish so - as Personal LIFE decision ('Life or Death...well now you can remove 'death' from the choice; or you can 'choose' to die - when YOU CHOOSE to 'stop living' because you are eternal/immortal)...someting we never had in human history since its dawn..million years...it'S alwaus been scifi bs/joked about and ridiculed as some 'moon shot and dreaming in color'...and we 'tried' in the ancient past to 'defeat aging' ...failed terribly...humans were Always fascinated by Life -- and -- Death; and Aging...because humans age. so we tried to 'thwarth it'..and failed. But NOW TODAY, or in soon future...we may Finally be able to Change Human History -- ffor THe BETTER Overalll vs 'the worse'...because Ethicists and moralists, Gregory, don'T want that...they want shtt...on defeat aging because they continuously ramm the same old point: 'Selfishness, immortal selfish dictator, overpopulation on earht (no one dies...anymore 1 dzillion humans, where to go, need antoehr planet to repopulate), no resources, we lack food, money, poor only rich people get the 'immortalty' (who wants a 'immortal rich dictator or murder'..no one...obviously); what else, 'it will cost too much -- expensive to have 'eternal old farts who don'T want to do 'for the good of all''....and on and on it goes..)..
that's why they are the serious thorn in the future for the realization of LEV...because they will continuously put 'high moral ground prov. sticks' in the wheels of the Concretization of LEV...
hinder the realization of it 'because immortality = bad'....simple as that. It's sad...SOOOOOO sad.
It's probably the saddest thing in my life to hear someone say that...
It'S also ,because we fear death....it is called 'mortality salience'...when you see things around that 'make you think...lof your own death...your own 'end' your own 'finitness' of your life...that You Know..that one your life will end...and as such, when someone talks to you about death,,.. you feel mortality salience because you are 'Brushing with your Own death'..like, 'as if' you were dying already...or 'felt death'...(I felt that...Physically, (something I wish upon no one, not even my worse enemy; it is Torture Death, you pass out and wish dying than being in the deathly torture (like being stabbed 100,000 times in thorax with 12inch kitchenknife or scalpel)... when I nearly died of Atherosclerosis blood clot thrombus puilmonary embolism, in my large artery and survived it; when 90% of people succomb of a large blood clot, causes a fatal heart attack within a minute or so); we will FIND ANSWERS to the Ethical and Moral Concerns....to them it'S just you ahve to ask the Moral/Ethical question FIRST before making the therapy, like the most primary question they say/ask is: ''You did not ask Yourself -The- Question, moral/ethical....question...which is: ''SHOULD WE HAVE EVER MADE A THERAPY THAT MAKES LEV AND IMMORTALITY -- IN THE FIRST PLACE?''.....To them..it'S answered already--it'S a resounding, No. 'because ethics/morals'. So, they will spit on the therapy because 'making LEV or even semi-mmmortaly, very extended longevity, CHOOSING how Long One wishes to live) will go against their morals/ethics. They may even say: ''If you live too long, that'S bad,, you are a problem', you cost, you are a Burden, you Need to Die -for others, if you 'dont' die'...we have a problem'...'' that'S where I will wait what there magical answer will be, if they Ever suggest à la Abortion or à la WW2 Nazi Camps - put them in gaz chambers..fry em..they would want to 'terminate' an 'old far' who 'lives too long' 'for others tastes'....Gregory, do you thin that the elders will just accept that ...they 'must die' because 'replaced' by new kids on the block...
What if these elders are not interested...waht if they live 5000 years...when ahve big problem...normally,,they died (at 90 or so)...not anymore.now 'they Want to Live to 5000'....
Oh Boy...we will have a big can 'of worms...'of ethics/morals...with the ethicists/moralists..who will say : 'It'S against nature, it's against humanity...the 'normal one'....we 'should abort old people'...like we abort unborn foetus in pregnant moms who don'T want this child''...
Gregory...if there is Abortion...it exists....but it iis being banned in USA south states...to allow 'prolife'...welll, if you are old and live 5000 years - you ahve to be Pro Life...otherwise..you wouuld be 'pro abortion' 'of old farts'...old people 'who do not die anymore --so 'Abort them'...at the slaughterhouse'... (like cows)...like a aborted foetus.
But, on that, I am in between---a foetus is a life..but an Old Human is alive NOW LIVE/LIVING...lived...and never gave his/her Consent 'to be killed/aborted 'in the womb'...'because he/she lives too long'...for others' tastes. Or, he/she 'costs too much' in resources or money...food...etc..'to keep alive'.
So, I mean, are people/'aging/'Age Police'..gonna come to you and knock on your door: ''HEy...your time is up...you reached 150 years old...you're an old (fart) now...young kids need their chance too...let them take your place...we have come to end you..because your 'Due Date' as arrived..you are Expired...per your ''Permit of Life Longevity'' --Expiration...reached. You reached the MAXIMAL expiration date....that'S 150..so we'Re taking you in and bringing you to a special hospital that makes 'Abortions' and it's not for foetus/pregnant women..it's for Old People who don't die and choose to not.''.
Dystopia, A dark World...where people watn you to die...now, you may say...but isn't taht what' happenign right now..when you 'want a foetus dead'...in a pregnant woman -- abortion. Aborting
'a human'. Not yet out of the mother..but 'alive' a few motnths alive..in her womb.
Aborting ---> kiilling ? an old person??...because living too long?...wwooooahhh....yeah..
Me, I respect the choice of people, I can understand Both sides of the Coin...prolife/conlife...
but (2c) in my book...it is farrrrrrrrrmore 'murderous/killer' if i could say it that way..to kill an old/elder human - that is alive/well NOW, 'LIVES/A/LIFE' in reality - Not in Womb.., and functions...and produces/contributes to society (is not ill or decrepit..RATHER is YOUNG BIOLOGICALLY REJUVENATED..the whole thing..and uses LEV..for that), pays taxes...is very Understanding...of his/her situation 'being the old guy/gal who doesn't die..(of aging)'....it iwill be more Normal -- that More Old People and More Young people Accept that LEV/very long lifespans is something WISHED now..and now just relegated to scifi bs and only 'crazies' in the head want that...nuts...so not so 'strange/weird' anymore, 'normal'...
Human(e)/ly...human(ly) normal...and more and more accepted...that'S hard to change 'the grain'..stubborness...and fatalism/self-defeatism rampant..because 'don'T wanna believe and think is all bs...'...
A woman can abort her child - if law allows -- it is Her Body, Hey Womb, Her Belly, Her Baby she carries...but yea....it is a human life in her....women SCREAM - I Decide...if my child lives or not, because I carry this child - to birth (well, excluding the man testis...) I mean the 'pregnancy/birthing' ..is only a woman doing that..so she says: 'I' have the last word...not others who watn to 'decide of my body' and my 'sexual organ'..I decide of it - MY BODY MY LIFE MY SOUL MY DECISION. FIN. And I don't decide 'for another woman'...and me, Gregory, I don'T decide - for you - you decide, at the eend oof the day- no one lives in you - Than You..no one else; 1 soul, 1 body, 1 mind, 1 life. People want ot 'control you' and 'decide for you' whats good for you 'as majority...and oyu, as 1 individauly, you decide of nothing..they 'took over decision of your body, your life, your mind, you decionsial power, you choice'.
And, they say's 100% Legit/100% Legal,, the law Supports It...'choosing for you,..' and you decide nothing Of YOUR OWN SELF.
Why - could then Old people Not decide of their own self...I mean, a pregnant woman screams my body my child....I can or not abort...my decision...
Well, an old person - HIS/HER BODY. his/her soul, his/her life...he/she Decides if he/she DIES or not...as in, saying :''I choose to live on, by my personal choice...and that could be 1,000,000,000 years...by my personal choice/body LIFE...MY LIFE...not yours or anyone else'S...'' that person has the choice to choose to live on and NOT be 'Aborted' 'on old age' because living too long, just like the choice of a pregnant woman to abort (or not if she wishes) her child...as her sole choice - because, sole life sole body sole decision, to her.
But, that'S what we are seeing the govs, laws and people wan to 'decide for her'..
and in the future, they mostly likely 'want to decide for old people who don't die of aging anymore'..
and it's ironic because some of these people doing that ..will be WISHING THEIR OWN DEATH 'normal regular 'aging death'...and they will spit on the chance to STOP/DEFEAT AGING...death - of aging...they will do that...they will decide that Mortality --- is better than immortality.
I see in the future LAW CLASHES/Wars WW3...between people Not wanting to die of aging and those wanting to; or, even, wose, FORCING/COERCING...the death of others...we saw it with COVID-19..some people care less.if a person did not take the vaccine..and EVEN wanted them DEAD...
of the virus 'because selfish and spreading the virus -- not cooperating with others -- so you can die..with the covid' (this the 'driving drunk analogy..knowing you shouild not but you drive drunk anyway and passible for crime/if kill someone with you car driving drunk. same thing with not taking the vaccine knowingly that you spread the virus and may kill innocent people 'not protected against viruis -- namely old people')......so you think people will care if you want to get LEV, many wil want you dead, because against their morals...
It's clear, there wil be many 'Clashed' (read ethica/morals'/laws/gov/justice) about this, in the future, because not everyone thinks the same way about LEV and many outright want/will want to ban it.
Sorry for the very long legnth rambling. (I tried to make paragraphs as much I could to break it down, sorry for many typos.)
The medical establishment is money-addicted and everyone knows it. Money matters more to them than peoples' health.
They had decades to prove otherwise, but they didn't.
If the FDA thought they could make more money out of you by throwing you into a garden shredder and turning you into fertilizer, they would do so in half a heartbeat.